I pushed my 24 Fordor out of the garage today to start it and run it a bit to get it all oiled up inside and just the usual, i revved it to a fast idle when all h*** broke loose, several magnets came out the side of the hogshead as well as several spools, there are magnet pieces stuck into the mag ring (new)and who knows what else as it stopped abruptly it has a new scat crank, new rods etc.
So i now have another winter project, i will post some pictures when i get to the teardown.
Bummer Rick ! Did you tear down the flywheel prior to the rebuild to have the magnets checked for cracks and having them re-magnetized ?
Sorry to hear of your bad luck but remember it could be worse...You could have awakened this morning with a hangover next to a woman you didn't know as your wife walked in!
Steve, the magnets were all checked and charged by Ron Patterson and he was the instructor while i installed them, must have had a cracked one.
Seth been there but wasn't married at the time, they are always better looking in the dark and drunk.
I think there's a song about that...sump'n about the girls always look better at closing time.
Or...I went to bed at two with a ten and woke up at ten with a two!
Rick, I wonder if something (a loose bolt or nut perhaps?) got into your motor somehow.
Did you peen over the brass screws that hold the magnets on. I have heard the reproduction screws are not as long as the originals. If the screws are not peened over, they will work loose and the force of the turning of the flywheel will send the magnets flying.
I second Wayne's comment, "UGH!"
Bad day? Having a wife, a girlfriend, and a mortgage and ALL of them are one month "past due" is a bad day!
Still... Condolences Rick. That would suck greatly.
Apparently Ron took offense at my mentioning his name, what i was saying that it was properly assembled, Ron charged the magnets and i assembled them under his supervision and as most know Ron is meticulous in everything he does, i am sorry he had the impression was blaming him.
Rick sorry to hear of your Really a Bad day.
What speed is your fast idle? It's really a bummer when this happens to a newly rebuild!
Gene, maybe 1/4 down on the throttle.
I will start taking it apart next week so i will have a better idea of what happened.
Funny... I never "read" that you blamed Ron. His reputation is above reproach.
There are some things that NO one can conceivably forecast. That's why they call them "accidents".
Bummer! Sorry that happened to your engine. When you start the autopsy / rebuild please let us know what you discover. Sometimes it is a human error and sometimes it is a mechanical failure and sometimes more than one thing. Hopefully you have a heated area to work in.
Hap l9l5 cut off
I second what John Aldrich said. I never read blame into it. Ron Patterson is one of the best of the best.
I will expand upon the next part. Most accidents are not.
But sometimes, an accident is just an accident. Sometimes, no matter how much you check. No matter how careful and meticulous you are with assembly. You can do everything right. And some stupid 80-year-old piece will just break or come apart. Sometimes the new part you put in because it should be safer is the one that goes flooey.
I look forward to your report on the cause if you can find it out. But I really wish it hadn't happened to you.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Thanks for the post and your obvious good attitude on life. Absolute good luck to you on your repair
This is a good lesson that our T's are not indestructible as much as we want them to be.
Some old cars whether they are a T or an A or whatever just keep running, smoking, rattling and etc. just keep going.
Whereas one that been rebuilt, and restored just doesn't last or something comes apart in it.
It just happens from time to time.
It seems that I have less problems with my "put together from good used parts" 1919 Runabout than my Coupe I spent a lot of money on when I restored it.
Cant figure it out.
The problem could have been caused by something other than the magnets. It could have been too close clearance between the magnets and the ring or some other part came loose and jammed between the magnets and the ring or the starter shaft. It will take a good detective to find out just what was the cause of your problem.
I just got through rebuilding an engine which had a problem caused by something else than I originally thought. The brakes went out on a tour and the driver used the reverse pedal to stop at every stopsign or signal for 30 miles. He said when he was almost home it sounded like marbles in a blender and the magneto quit working. He was able to limp in on battery.
My original guess was that he had shattered the reverse drum and that is what caused the marbles in a blender sound and the loss of the magneto.
Upon disassembly, we found that the 4th rod bearing babbit had disintegrated and a piece had jammed between the magnets and the coil, which cut the coil. The knocking noise was the rod bearing.
The magnets and the reverse drum were fine.
Anyway, before anyone blames anyone else, take it apart and try to find out what really happened. It's a good learning experience.
Hey Rick, sorry to hear about your mishap. Be thankful you were not in the path of that scrap iron and lost a foot!
I looking back i think i may know the initial cause, back in March when we were setting the flywheel assembly on the crankshaft one of the chain ends broke and it fell from about five feet, it hit the leg of the stand and then fell on the floor, we checked everything but considered ourselves lucky that nothing broke, that jar may have cracked a magnet, i know they were good when we mounted them because Ron struck them on a vise.
Just another adventure, expensive, but an adventure.
Jim are you coming next Sunday?
here are two pictures showing what came out side and the hole and pieces still inside, first thing off will be the starter.
Glad no one got hurt when it came apart. Really sucks that it was a new rebuild too.
Fast idle did that? Imagine 3,000 rpm? It's no wonder the racers back in the day removed the magnets.
Just thought I would add for Ron: I read what he said as being since Ron was watching the whole thing there is no way that the anything with the installation could have been the problem. I thought it was a compliment since he was saying that installation shouldn't be considered a variable in whatever went wrong.
Anyway, UGH!! I've had a few things happen with my T that were right after I got it back together. Just makes you want to throw up.
I think we know too much today and try to apply that knowledge to the T. The back yard mechanics of the era cut and filed and did what ever another "expert" told them to do and got by. It's like John said: less trouble re-building with old stuff. I've seen a guy set a rod by feel alone. Just an open end wrench and his hands. I wouldn't do it but it worked for him. I've had 2 others tell me they set coils by sound alone. Is is right? Hell no but they were happy with it.
Ralph, the flywheel was dropped to the floor which is why the magnets broke.
Better to have happened in the driveway than out on the highway.
Regardless of why the magnets broke, I'm just amazed so much damage was done at fast idle. Picture the possible collateral damage at WOT.
here are a few more pictures, several of the mag spools came off, all the magnets are broken, a lot of the screws are sheared off and a lot are bent with the spool and keepers still attached, it looks like one magnet failed and the rest stacked up like dominoes. I will take the pan off tomorrow and dump out the junk.
Wow, Rick, that's a catastrophe. From the usual high of the first start to the unexpected disappointment of something like this. What a bummer! Good luck with it from here on out.
Mike, all this damage and it did not touch the oil funnel.On to the next part.
That's a real bummer, Rick. I feel for you. I'm still paying for a dumb decision I made about the crankshaft when I fixed the seized tranny earlier this year.
I also found empty space doesn't fail, which is what I got by leaving the magneto out.