The support brackets that were added to the frames in February, 1913 were apparently only added for the touring cars. I have a '13 runabout made in March, with the early frame, and it is plain, with no holes for that bracket.
I read where there were added metal supports at the door sills of the tourings for added body strength.
Both the frame and body brackets are on this old 13 I have.
The point I was trying to make is, they must have had two frames at the same time, one for tourings, and another for runabouts!
Larry, my 13 touring engine # 3067xx does not have the frame brackets or holes in the frame for them. It has the forged end rear cross member.
I have touring # 3124xx with the smooth rear cross member. Body is Beaudette. Do you know what maker your body is?
Ken in Texas
My body is either a Hebert or Herbert, H167106, and was assembled in February. The engine number is 212526.
Ken, the body is a Beaudette # 1088xx. The casting date on the block is 5-31-13 It has drive in freeze plugs. It also has the two piece drive shaft.
Mine has a 6-19-13 casting date with pipe plugs in the block. Two piece drive shaft also.
Somewhere in the literature, it is noted that the late(r) 1913 style Beaudette touring bodies did have stronger sills and didn't require the extra frame brackets or inside steel plates.
While I was under there and in this thread, What are the two 1-1/4" holes for in the splash aprons that are "under" the rear door? From the rear of the apron they are on 5-1/4" and 12-1/4" centers.
Are those holes in all aprons?
Ken in Texas
Ken, my splash aprons do not have those holes. Do they look like factory punched holes?
Yes, they appear to be factory punched and they are under the rear door sills of the body. There is no nut or bolt visible just the body sill.
When my body was re-wooded back in 1962, I never did drill the holes for the bolts that go into the bracket that this post is all about. I'm planning to do so now. I'm assuming it is a 5/16 carriage bolt. The length should be easy enough to figure out, but does it use a square nut or a hex?
Larry: My new 13 Touring, # 198xxx has no braces. I have another early 13 frame that had a late 12 engine casting date with the braces. Does that stir the pot more for you??? I will look at my late 13/ early 14 no owner Roadster and see if it has the braces. It has the 13 style frame. By the way, carriage bolt, square nut is what I have always been told. But, I am in the South. Dan
Dan's right, except it's "carriage bolt, carriage nut," that being the accepted (non-shade-tree, wink wink nudge nudge) term for the square nuts.
Ken, would those holes be for the bolt to pass through for the frame brace or other type of reinforcement. My car does not have the brace therefore no holes in the apron. Just a thought.
I had the same thought but I wanted to see if someone else had the same holes. It looks like they would line up with two of the bolts going down through the "flange" shown on page 151 of Bruce's book.
I don't have the brace or holes in the frame but the transmission was assembled on 7/11/13 and the engine 6 days later. Stub shafts are dated and may be the only real date on the car.