My 1919 Model T will be 100 years old in a few years. Will that drastically increase its value, or will it still be about the same price it would sell for now, whatever that might be?
Who knows what will happen in 6 years.
Do you think any of the cars of today will be around in 100 years? I highly doubt it.
Price isn't directly connected to age after a car is say 15 years old
Instead, the value of a collectible is depending on how many potential buyers there are at any given moment..
Brass cars looks good and has been the only ones reaching the century mark yet - they have been better investments than black era Fords for a long time before they got 100 years old and will probably continue selling at higher prices than 1917-25 T's for the forseeable future.
Collector cars long term will in general rise in price keeping up with inflation. In general, that higher price will not represent a higher value. In other words your car will always be worth about what it is now, relative to all other things.
If the world wide economy goes into a depression, all things will be worth less except food and shelter.
"If the world wide economy goes into a depression, all things will be worth less except food and shelter."
I think I would have to agree more with Rodger. Seems like value is ultimately based on what people are will to pay for them. Popularity of cars comes and goes. Last January I stopped by a popular dealer of collector vehicles. All the interest centered around the muscle cars of the 1960's and 70's. People walked right past the beautiful Model A roadster at the front of the showroom and the 1925 Model T touring at the rear of the showroom was totally neglected (except for me). Seems like aging Baby Boomers who have the disposable income are drawn to the cars of their teenage years and have little interest in older vehicles. I suspect that will be the trend for the future and largely dictate actual sale prices. You can ask anything you want for your car, but what a buyer(s) are will to pay for it determines it's actual value.
I have always heard that to be an "antique" to an antiques dealer, something had to be at least 100 years old. If it was newer than that, it was just considered a "collectable" (there may be other classifications too). So, if you have an old dining room table, it has to be 100 years old to be considered an "antique" by an antique dealer. In listening to the Antiques Road Show on our local public broadcasting system, they talk about furniture (and probably some other things) as having the value downgraded severely if the original finish has been removed. Now on "antique" vehicles, some think a restored car is worth more than an original. I'm tending to think that vehicles in their original state will tend to be more valuable in the future. A restoration is only an individuals interpretation of what it should look like. I even like to see vehicles that were restored in the 1940's or 50's as they too capture an era with different paints, upholstery, etc used during that time period.
I don't care about reality -- Just like Rob - my 1919 will be 100 soon and I know that it will be worth exactly 25.3756% more than today -
I just need to figure out how much it is worth today!
And I'm sticking to that assumption.
I think the sale price of our cars will decrease over time. As eluded to previously younger people (including our families sometimes) don't seem as interested in our cars and hence demand is decreasing and as we age and surrender our licenses supply is increasing- Hence prices are being forced down . This has been happening all ready in most "ordinary" vintage cars The share drivability and excellent parts situation for Model A's and T's has insulated them slightly from this trend but won't do so for ever -Karl
I hope you're right. If the prices start going down, maybe I can afford that 1914 soon.
Hal- I guess it's a race between the car getting affordable and us not being able to drive it (or worse still us not remembering we wanted it) -Karl
I was going to take my 14 out for a Birthday cruise a few weeks ago (the engine shows a 10-22-13 casting date) but it stating leaking grease and spewing water. I guess "she" was try to tell me that she was only 83
In the 1960's a 1914 Model T touring, fully restored, was worth about half the price of a fully restored 1931 Model A phaeton.
Today the same is true.
Ten years from now the same will be true.
There will always be a finite percentage of people in the world who are car collectors. Will I care if my estate sale has more money after the auction? Heck no, it won't matter. I will be dead.
If you want to maximize your capital investments you should know that car collections are not the way to generate wealth. Car collecting and restoring is fun, interesting, and gratifying. It won't make you richer.
Definition of a bargain..."when both halves think they got the better end of the deal" or as my dad used to say "If you have a valuable collectable you wish to sell, Find a collector who also thinks it is valuable that is your task"
I agree with Royce. "If you want to maximize your capital investments you should know that car collections are not the way to generate wealth. Car collecting and restoring is fun, interesting, and gratifying. It won't make you richer."
Same with boats, cigars, guns, Hummel figurines, and such. If you're lucky, a single item might be be worth 100 or even 1000 times what you paid, but mostly not.
(written from the beach in Mazatlan)
I have one item that is worth 600 times what I paid for it, but of course some of that is inflation. In 1955 I paid $5 for the first issue of Playboy. It is the unmarked issue from December of 1953. It is the one with the Marilyn Monroe cover and fold out. I was in a rare book shop in LA four years ago when a customer paid $3000 for one. I course, I have it in a very save place. I did pay $125 for my 1910 Touring in 1946.
Eric and Royce, car collecting is in fact one of the safest places to have your money if you invest in the right cars. What you say is true if your talking about model Ts or Model A's. I love Fords , but if you invest your money into great cars such as a great 12 cylinder Ferrari or a Model J Duesenberg or great large ealy brass cars such as a Pope Hartford or Locomobile your cars will most certainly go up in value. I remember my dad had two 275 GTB 4 cam ferraris about 6 years ago. I believe we sold them for around $400,000 each. now both of those cars have sold recently at auction for close to 2 million each. Weve also had the great locomobile "Old 16" which we sold to the Ford Museum around the year 2000 and now its probably worth 3 or 4 times what we sold it to them for. If you invest in great cars then your cars will always go up in value. Also many cars that are worth a lot today were worth just as much as T's a few years back. For example a 356 Porsche. 10 years ago you could buy them for around 20,000 now they are $85,000 to $250,000 depending on body style. But Model T's will always be the best and the most fun . The prices of Model Ts havnt changed in 25 years (except the 1909 and 1910 cars).
My 1914 Model T Runabout is priceless to me. I have over the years owned a few "Black" 1917 to 1923 T's and a TT. I always wanted to go back in time to a Brass T and finally had a chance to buy one. If it sales for only $10,000. after I have gone to the big Model T Tour in the sky, I won't know about it.
I know I will never recover what Iv invested in my 19. I think a 19 is selling for around $11000, It should be around $24000 what I got into her at the moment. Add up what Iv invested over the years for tires,2 Engine builds, Safety hubs, New Top, Ruxtell rear, Coils, New paint job And a whole host of little things over the past 13 years. But then my car is no trailer queen either, And I'm still not done. I still want a wet set of brakes and a wardford transmission. She is a driver and I put money into it to keep it that way. The feeling I get from driving it makes it worth every penny.
I've been through a lot of "hobby" cars over the past 30 years and one thing I do is to keep all the parts bills for a car and write everything, work or job wise, down. I don't keep track of hours as that's enjoyment time for me. It gives you a solid idea of what you're got into it. Every one of those cars was going to be the one I was going to keep forever and none of them were but when sold I knew, at least in my mind, if I took a hit or made something. Honestly T's bring a nice return. Especially if their not running when bought. I go through the whole could be this could be that routine and I can't do the crank bearings myself and on & on. You can get a rough idea of the needed work by hand cranking and jacking the rear wheels to check for play ect. I know what I'm looking for. Now you take a nice looking running T from a guy that's worked on it and it's another story entirely. Higher $. Prices range from nuts (Hemming's) to bargains (Craigslist) but a clean runner with a knowledgable seller is always more.
I keep all the bills, but I never total them up, it would be too scary! ;>)
Yes, I suspect RM also makes a great deal of money in the antique car trade but, I do not consider them to be collectors. I'm not knocking them, or your family's business either. Royce's comment, pertained to collectors, not investors, or traders, or auctioneers. I suppose you could do both but I suspect that the investment side of the hobby might be lucrative while the collector's side less so.
A Model T is a great car to drive and to maintain. They are relatively inexpensive and if you bend a fender you can either repair or replace it for a small cost. They can be driven as is or restored.
Those other cars listed above, might go up in value over the years, but have to be maintained in perfect condition and stored most of the time only using for car shows. I have known people who had Model A's or T's or other more expensive and rare cars who had all mechanical work done by professionals, and even washed and detailed by pros, and then trailered to a show, pay money to enter the show and compete with other like cars. All those things are very expensive and in the long run probably cost more than a Model T. And you can enjoy driving and working on your own T.
Some people enjoy the shows and having something someone else can only drool about. I see very few of those cars mentioned in the first post, and have not seen many during my lifetime. Most are owned just to say, I have something you don't have.
The owners and club members of the Model T clubs are among the nicest, finest and friendliest people I have met.
Model T's for me! I have other ways to own money. And the only way to get the money is to sell the cars. T's are for enjoyment.
I only have 1 Model T it's a 22 and it's been in the family the whole time. I know it's not correct but I did the best I could bringing it back to life. I don't care what it's worth it's priceless to me.
I dont understand what you are saying. The bottom line is that if you buy a great car, its value will always go up. Regular car collectors who bought great cars in the past have made a lot of money by just owning those cars and not selling them at auction or selling them at all. I dont understand your comparison to an investor to a collector? A collector invests his or her money into cars. My point is if you collect the right stuff you will never lose money. For example if you really liked the move James Bond Gold Finger and mabye 5 or 6 years ago decided to buy a silver Aston Martin DB5 for 60 or 70 thousand dollars just because you like the car and the movie and knowing that they are good cars. Now they are worth $500,000 to $600,000. This has nothing to do with being a dealer or an Auctioneer, it has to do with knowing which cars are great. Also just because you are a collector does not mean you over pay for cars either. A great car will always be a great car and their values will always go up whether you are a collector an auctioneer or a dealer. Cars have become like art and those are the ones that you want to collect.
Model T cars will be driven until someone in government outlaws them!
Jerry V - What does "RM" mean?
Norman - you hit the nail on the head, at least in our opinion. Scarey isn't it?
Harold -- RM refers to RM Auctions.
BTW, They're at www.rmauctions.com
The only problem I have with these "High Dollar" auctions is it makes a bunch of otherwise intelligent people with a rust-bucket 53 Chieftan think they are sitting on a goldmine!
Sitting on a goldmine is good when you are selling
And painful when you are buying.
P. T. Barnum said "There is a sucker born every minute"
I say, "I hope it is not me."
Mike - "Thanks"! Old guys like me (who DO NOT "text") need whole words and whole sentences!
Norman, even if they outlaw them thats not gonna stop me from driving model T's! Even though they dont have a huge monetary value they are still the greatest car you can ever own.
There is a sucker born every day at these big named auctions. Wait a year after they bought these cars to see what type of crappy restorations was preformed. paint/body work especially