Political posts and posts insulting other posters will be removed.
Lions two Christian's nothing, and how's your Model T running?
Thanks, Chris. My Model T is resting in the garage. Happy Thanksgiving to all.
So much for an interesting, entertaining, educational, thought provoking forum. You might as well ban the OT designation if all posted MUST be "hobby related", unless by hobby you mean it is okay to talk about knitting and coin collecting . We can't agree on everything except for the fact that we all love Model T's and that you are doing a great job, Chris. Jim Patrick
"...an interesting, entertaining, educational, thought provoking forum."
Yes, that's what we have, until political bickering goofs it up.
Careful Jerry. No bickering, or the use of the word pol...cal, or this thread will be deleted too. It needs to stay up at least long enough for the word to be spread to one and all, throughout the land, that our freedom of speech has been restricted to hobby related topics ONLY...
And here I thought we were just a congenial group of misfits exchanging witty banter for our own entertainment and that of others....
THAT DOES IT! I'M OFFENDED! I DEMAND THAT THIS THREAD BE DELETED! Or else I'm tellin'.
Pretty much saw that one coming. Politics is a very polarized subject that usually brings out the emotional and sometimes ugly side of people.
I firmly believe if everyone had remained civil and pulled in the claws, we would not now be at this point on this forum. Instead you had to get those unneeded digs in. Now look where we are.
You were warned and yet you failed to heed. You get what you deserve. The moderator was right to put a cap on the comments that were occurring on the health thread. Unfortunately, what is "good for the goose is good for the gander" and thus will affect all OT post going forward. Unfortunately, those of us who chose to be civil when a debate gets lively will pay for it in the end.
And don't give me the "Free Speech" argument. Free speech pertains to getting out your soapbox and standing on a corner somewhere screaming at the top of your voice. I can get behind that.
As this is a private site open to the public, it is a privilege to be able to post on this forum, not a right. Those privileges should require a level of respect for every user.
What did I miss? I apparently didn't open any of the controversial threads.
Missed out again.
Thanks Chris B.
"Those privileges should require a level of respect for every user."
If only we humans could do that in ALL we do, there would be no reason for bickering - nor wars.
Several folks were complaining about ObamaCare and some of the democrats got offended.
Rich: It started out entertaining and move to cringe-worthy very fast. The escalating of opinions and personal barbs spelled its demise.
The irony is that I see the potential for this thread to go the same way. Let's hope not.
Is My T (T related) old enough to qualify for Obummer care??????. Just askin.
Richard you missed a very lively, honest and forthright exchange of ideas and opinions. I wish I would have printed it out as this forum and forums like it have been, through history, from the time of the Greeks in 300BC, and after them, the Romans, one of the few places where folks could get the truth. I will miss it, but se la vive. This is the world we now live in. Silence he who yells the least.
Chris, I appreciate all of your work keeping this forum running.
Chris, Thank you for your efforts.
Just so you know I received several messages about deleting the message pre-emptively.
I thought if it could be kept civil it would be ok to let it run its course.
As I was driving my T to work today I was thinking about this forum. Normally I don't post on off-topic threads, but I often read them. I was wondering, "what is wrong with off-topic threads?"
The only valid reason I can see for discouraging off-topic posts is if they overwhelmed the on-topic posts. I don't think that this is the case. I think the "good" of dialog, even if seemingly uncivil at times, transcends the evil of censorship. I think that most of us on here consider each other friends, and for me, I find it very interesting to know what my friends think about stuff besides Model T's.
Chris: To me, it looked like it was spiraling out of control. For the integrity of the forum as a whole, you had to make the call and it was a good one.
I always enjoy a calm and dispassionate discussion of the issues.
Steve, was "castor oil" the correct answer to your question on the deleted thread about what oil to run in a Doctor's Coupe?
Dunno. I'll try it and find out if I ever get one.
It was only a matter of time before someones ice cream melted.
The Forum Rules state that messages should be related to "Model T's or restoration of Model T's." Chris is being lenient by letting us post any OT messages at all. As long as they're kept civil, he lets them go.
Be thankful for what we have here, and be nice. That seems simple enough to me.
Looks like the original signage on Rt. 287 north of Bridgewater, NJ ....
There are other forums that will pull a political thread in a heartbeat. They are quite civil and on topic. Now I did join in on the last one as it seemed despite the top of the page that states otherwise, it was being allowed. May as well ramp it up as no rules seemed to apply. One can only read so many invectives thrown around so long with out sayin something, and thus it grows.
Really the point of staying on topic perhaps.
I really think we are the window to the world and this hobby needs to grow. So I will ask once again what is wrong with keeping it on topic? Even the suggestion that we abide by the stated rules was blamed on democrats!
Perhaps the one thing we should be able to agree on is we love T's and that's why we're here, I for one am happy to leave politics and religion out of it. Attacking a mans ideals will generally guarantee a response.
A good site for those interested.
Thank you for all you do for the forum and for our club!
For all -- Chris did NOT say "no OT post" rather "Political posts and posts insulting other posters will be removed." I think that allows a lot of freedom -- and you can still e-mail anyone you desire to continue any discussion you desire. In general I think most of the posts, for most of the times are well within the limits. Every now and then one of us gets a little too animated and thinks tend to get out of hand but not that often. [I'm glad I'm older now, earlier in life I knew everything ... well at least I acted like I knew everything. I would have been right in there telling everyone what was "really correct." Oops, I better be careful I may be slipping back into that mode....]
I have not had time to read the posting in question -- there are too many of the T-related ones I haven’t gotten to yet. But I trust Chris to "make the call" that is best for the forum. And I think he has been doing a great job of that and keeping things running smoothly etc.
And as Thanksgiving approaches -- one of the things I am thankful for is our club and our forum. And I'm also thankful for all you guys and gals that make the forum and our club possible.
Hap l9l5 cut off
Good work Chris, thanks for keeping this forum civilized! There are enough legitimate arguments over things in the hobby that sometimes get a little out of line without adding the political stuff to the mix. I agree with another point others have made, the forum rules limit posts to certain subjects and Chris has every right (and duty) to remove things when they get out of hand.
En Boca Cerrada No Entran Moscas.
But I could use a couple of 24/25 good window Regulators for my jalopy coupe.
Wellll.....I guess we can still talk about religion.
I still don't get it. Why should folks who enjoy OT posts be denied their enjoyment? To me it is like an Italian restaurant that has a section of their menu marked "American Food" where a person could order a hamburger or whatever. You wouldn't have to order the hamburger, or even read that part of the menu, if it were clearly marked, yet it gives people more choice. Why would it upset you that an Italian restaurant served American food (too)? If you hated American food, why would you go into an Italian restaurant that you know serves it, and then order it and then eat it and then complain about it?
I've heard it called "yum-yucking". It means killing someone's buzz, just because you don't like what they like.
Quite an astute analogy there, Tom - I am partial to Italian !
I know my favorite "Chinese" has a short "American" menu in the back of the main.
I omitted "Chinese" place - ooopps !
I'm with Tom on this one.
I found the tread very interesting.
I can personally vouch for Steve's good taste in Italian restaurants.
Aaron and I agree with Tom. I'm more put off by the complainers.......and I think we all know who a few of them are.
Nice. I just did a keyword search for Bush. Lots of bashing there that is still available for one to read. Selective outrage from the offended wins the day.
noun, plural fo·rums, fo·ra [fawr-uh, fohr-uh]
1. the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.
2. a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.
3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
4. the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.
From the Getting Started page of the MTFCA Forum"
"Rules and "Netiquette"
When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone. Flames, insults, and personal attacks will not be tolerated. It's fine to disagree strongly with opinions, ideas, and facts, but always with respect for the other person. Great minds do not always think alike, and that's where the fun is! Also, note that messages express the thoughts of the writers, not the board or its moderators."
From the MTFCA home page, again. It seems clear.
"The focus of our Forum is to provide a place where questions and answers regarding the history, maintenance and restoration of the Model T can be shared. We expect postings on the forum to be Model T related; questions and comments about the Model T Ford Club of America should be directed to the Business Office. We reserve the right to monitor this web site and forum and remove postings that are not directly related to the Model T Ford."
Three things I don't discuss in public: Religion, Politics, Sex. Oh, and Chevrolets. Now I can't count...
For the seemingly clueless among us.
Comradely is the spirit of friendship and community in a group, like the comradery of soldiers at war who keep each other upbeat despite the difficulty of their circumstances.
Who is a comrade? A close friend or a fellow soldier — in other words, someone who comes to mind when you say, "We're in this together." Comradery reflects that same spirit: both words can be traced to the Spanish word comarada, meaning “chamber mate,” or roommate. Comradery is a feeling of trust, a bond created by a shared goal or experience — you don't have to be best friends with everyone in the group to know you have their support.
Oh man there's nothing I like better than getting under somebodies skin while bashing their favorite political hero. If there really was something called god he'd back me up on this. So bring on the naked stripper nuns.
Jerry, Naked Monkeys? How about Naked Humans? When was the last time you saw a newborn come from the womb with clothes on?
Speaking of monkeys (since I consider us all just chimps that talk), do you guys really want this vibrant active Forum to end up like our "sister station" the MTFCI? That modern suped up up-to-the-minute site is deader than Kelsey's you know what. I'm with Chris as to deleting unruley posts but not until they get that way. The joint's jumpin' and I like it that way.
I think I am for the moderators moderating posts, but in moderating I think the moderators should be very moderate in their moderation.
I believe in "everything in moderation, nothing to excess", except in the case of the use of moderate and its derivatives in this post.
Here's a novel idea! Why not just remove the individual offensive post instead of the whole thread. But in the long run, it really won't matter. After everyone finds out totally (what is in the bill) I believe we will all be on the same side.
Don't count on it Dan. To some who love big government and all it can give them for free, Obama is the second coming and can do or say no wrong, no matter how ludicrous or harmful to the rest of us.
I don't think I have offended anyone by this truthful statement, however, anyone who is offended by it has voluntarily put themselves in the above category. Jim Patrick
My definition of OT post-----Winter is here!
This looks like it might be a good over the counter remedy for the thin skinned complainer's. Take two and DON'T call me in the morning!
I take this when I get fed up ;>)
Mark, Actually I think one medication that will be in high demand once the new health care law kicks in is this one.
I think we all should be careful here. The mod is communicating the policy re the forum and that policy is clearly stated by Chris and within the website. The response is to complain (about the so called complainers) and turn this thread political.
Forum owners typically resort to just stripping the thread with an auto response...Thread remover due to user violation.
Now have heartburn with me as you will but Chris is being put in a very compromising position.
The rules are clearly stated. Populate the board with those that wish to change the rules if you will.
It's all fun and games... 'till someone puts an eye out
I do not have a stake in this pissing match....the only elements that will be in trouble will be the ones that face deletion, either in the short term or perpetuity.
Chris B. do what is necessary, Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead !
Now guys come on I've been a lurker on this form for about 4 years since I got hooked on Model T's. I've never posted before because I figured my information or knowledge wasn't near what you guys knowledge is out there. But I just have to throw my opinion out there. Without you guys and your knowledge and the information on this forum, I would have never been able to rebuild my own coils my own motor or know the difference between Babbitt or bronze thrust washers in the rear axle. I firmly believe that everyone's opinion is important I also firmly believe there's a time and a place for everything. this is a model T forum and in my opinion is one of the best automotive forums out there. please let's not bash each other's political religious or any other personal views on this forum there are other places to do it. let's all help to keep this the best place to find information on model T Fords that there is. I believe chris is doing his job the way he should be, and I believe he is doing this for us gratis not getting paid correct me if I'm wrong so don't start bashing him for doing his job. happy Thanksgiving to all from Long Island New York Tom
Politics and religion rarely evolve into humor, this is why the old adage exist.
It is almost always divisive and we need to encourage people to be interested in Model T's not our politics. Thomas thank you.
Chris must be pullin' his hair out... Sorry Chris. I'll try and be good. Not promising, but I'll give it the ol' college try. Jim Patrick
I don't believe in evolution, but I do think peoples skin is getting thinner. Must be an environmental thing....
"...Naked Monkeys? How about Naked Humans? When was the last time you saw a newborn come from the womb with clothes on?"
I don't recall ever seeing a newborn coming out clothed. Have you? What were they wearing? (Birthday suit no doubt) What's that got to do with my tongue-in-cheek offense at seeing naked monkeys?
Haven't heard from you in a while. I see you're doing about the same. My aunt was a nun, I don't believe she was a stripper however, so you may not have met her. (And perhaps never will...)
This has nothing to do with anything:
Pastor says to the little boy, "do you understand what the resurrection is all about?"
"Yes" replies the boy. "The guy on the TV said if it lasts more than four hours call the doctor!"
Does this fall under, 'no religious jokes' or 'no off color jokes?' lol
Robert,If Bob Dole had said it, somehow it wouldn't be as funny!
Glad we all got past that stupid desire to speak freely about our political views. This complacency is awesome!
Hopefully we never have to worry about that again.
Getting back to the original intent of this post, I can see one good reason not to have these controversial subjects discussed here. I should say first though, I personally like them. The problem I have found is this:
There are guys whose T related posts I have read for years and even though I have never met them, I feel a kind of kinship toward them. Now, when they start spouting off on their feelings toward people with differing values and opinions (sometimes including mine) I realize that some of them are actually jerks. It's kind of disappointing to find that someone you kind of liked from afar really isn't very likeable. By the way, I don't exempt myself from occasional jerkiness. Maybe we're better off living in La La Land thinking we're all great guys.......
Life is to short to be serious.
And I didn't go to college so I can't give it the
Ol Collage TRY, I'll just keep working.
PS How is your T doing today. GRIN
I am not the smartest amoung you all by any means. But here is my observations.Delete if you like.
It is the minority that complains,and that is part of the method to their agenda. They work in small groups to cause headache and despair in any area of their influence.
For example this is a Model T forum.
Rules are written in regards to off topic threads.
A off topic thread comes up and civil people discuss it. The minority claims to be offended. They use the rules to their advantage.They complain,thread removed.Thus other views or common sense to be muted.
They use the system that was created with good intentions against us and our freedom of speech.
Post the 10 commandments in the local courthouse,or the T museum.Let some of them walk in and see it.Complain,eventual removal,they win another small battle in the war against freedom.
1 day you will try to have a Model T club meeting at a reserved room in a restaurant and when the president try's to open it with prayer, they will be asked to stop or a threat of a lawsuit.Don't believe it,ask Rowan county's board of commissioners. They lost a big law suit over prayer at the meetings because of a few people offended.
This aint a battle field to fight the problem.But it is my fear,we will wish we had picked 1 years ago before it got this far.
If it were just the personal attacks against someone that was being complained about,I would agree that action should be taken.
But I think that is just used as cake iceing to get their way.
Bob's got it right, life's to short to be serious. As far as I see from going back and reading this thread, no one was personally attacked. Although It's become obvious to me here that what is considered humor in New York city is not necessarily humor in any-town USA. "Say good nite Gracie"
When Burns and Allen first met and joined up to be a team she was the "straight man" and he was the fool that you were supposed to laugh at.
It didn't work well so they switched parts.
Mr VanOoteghem, Haven't been here for awhile. Just thought I'd do a little slumming. You know I may have seen your aunt sometime back. Where does she dance these days? Does she have a stage name? Watch out for her that could be a rough lifestyle, she may end up with a habit. It's strangely comforting to see your still suffering with the same severe case of anal retentivity you've always struggled with.
I have to inflict a little thread drift here.
Their TV show used a plot device that was pure genius. You would see a scene between two characters, Gracie and Blanche for example, talking about something George wasn't supposed to know. Then you'd see George in his study watching that scene on his TV. Knowing all about their secret, he would tell somebody else, like Morton or Von Zell, something to advance the plot. This led to some very funny stuff. Some of the old comedies don't hold up very well, but theirs does.
Oh man, George and Gracie were the best. She was the smartest "dumb blonde" to ever grace (no pun intended)the small screen. As I get older and the need to be on the meds that help with PTSD and the numerous tumors from the agent orange and all the blood pressure and other meds coupled with 17 months of chemo-therapy to defeat a blood virus known as hepatitis C and maintain some semblance of a normal life I find my short term memory is affected more and more. I have a hard time remembering why I went into the kitchen a minute ago and yet I can still hear Gracie Allen's voice as clear as a bell. And when she only made sense to George because he expected and understood what was happening. After all that was Gracie. I have a very dear old friend that lives in the community with me. We spend an hour in the morning and a couple hours drinking coffee in the afternoon and discussing things from 50 to 60 years ago. He's 73 and I'm 63. He has an excellent almost photographic memory and I have very little. So he helps me in a lot of my daily things such as my appointments and chores that I might miss. But when we sit down and talk about Burns and Allen or Les Paul and Mary Ford and just about a million different subjects I settle in and enjoy him and the conversation so much. The hours go by so quickly and life seems to have so much value.
It was a pleasure meeting you in Minnesota this summer. Jerry is a "good guy" (and personal friend) so please take it easy on his Aunt. Take care, and enjoy your Thanksgiving day,
Rob, I didn't really mean to offend him. Actually I didn't even think what I said was all that offensive as I have family and friends that are deeply embedded in the Catholic Church. But as my friend always, and I mean always, tell me is that it's important for me to always ask myself to consider what I'm saying before I say it because I may never know the effect on others. And lately I've been trying to but I guess I've still got a long way to go. That being said. The way Jerry presented himself was antagonistic and many times is because he has a way of presenting himself sometimes that's offensive because he thinks it's his job to monitor what gets said on this forum and waits for an opportunity to throw it back in someone's face. He's not a close friend of mine, could have been if he would lose his holier than thou attitude, but I don't see it happening any time soon. That being said it was a real pleasure meeting you this summer. I've been waiting for that opportunity for some time now. I nearly did the summer before but was a little shy about doing it. But I wasn't about to pass up the opportunity this summer. I hope you and your family have the best of Thanksgivings. And I hope Jerry and his family do too (that goes for his aunt as well).
And with that I'll once again remove myself from the forum and attempt to refrain from posting again. Actually it's no great loss, I never really add any advice or expertise anyway. I only know enough to work on my own T's.
Mack Cole -- You may not have spent as much time in school as some of us, but don't think for a moment that you are not one of the smarter ones here. I've thought that for years. I always read your posts and nearly always learn something from what you have to say.
Right on Mike. Mack is an example of what made this country great. Common people with common sense.
Unfortunately, he is part of a dying breed that apparently will not be reproduced.
Ditto on what Mike and Chuck said.
Mack, I agree with them.
And Mike G., you can come back and play. There's room for all, just have to be careful not to be "edgy" (now if I would follow my own advice ).
Well the pool of knowledge is huge here.That is why I think the off topic post are interesting sometimes.
Yes, the pool of knowledge is big here, that's why the O T's go on so long.
The Off Topic posts ARE ALWAYS interesting.
Let 'em go and when a thread finally dies out then just delete it in the interest of saving space.