The fire wall bracket does not fit on one side. Anybody know why? I put the body on today. The right fire wall bracket fits ok, but the left one does not. I do not think the frame is bent, at least not that much. I did check before I put the engine. Could be wrong? Any suggestions? Thank you in advance. Bob
Looks like the frame is racked. I was amazed at how the frames do that. You can measure from one corner to the other to see how off it is and then use a come-along and chain to pull it back .
Can this be done with the engine and body and everything else on the car? Is it easy enough to explain how to do it?
Hi Bob. It could be the frame but I would check the body first. These early bodies have a lot of flexibility. You could check this by putting a square against the bottom inside face of the main body sills and checking the firewall is at 90 degrees. I suspect it will be slightly out. If so, move the body back until the firewall bracket on the right hand side matches the frame holes, bolt it, then go around the back of the body and give the left hand side a shove until the left hand firewall bracket matches the frame holes.
It will be easier to check and fix if the body is off the car. I would also unbolt the engine from the frame and front motor support. That way you will not have any undue stress on the crankcase. Measure the frame from corner to opposite corner for both diagional measurements. If off more than 1/4 inch from each other, hook a com-a-long from corner to corner along the long measurement. Pull till the measurement is pulled too much in the same amount that you were off, and it stays when you release the com-a-long. (over pull) Then hook the com-a-long to the other corner to corner and pull till each measurement is the same. By overpulling and then re-setting to the same measurement for each corner to corner, the frame will stay the same. If you just pull till they are the same measurement without overpulling, the frame useally will spring back to the original bent position when you start driving the car. I have never done it with the engine in the car so I can not say you can do it or not with the engine in place. If you do not have the frame corner to corner within 1/4 inch (1/16 to 1/8 is better) and have both side rails straight along there sides and also along the top, you will fight it all the way thru the restoration of the car. Another check to make is, see if the front crossmember is sprung. Measure the radiator lower mount holes center to center on the radiator where the springs and thimbles will fit. Then measure the radiator mount, stud holes, in the frame. They should be the same. If sprung the frame holes are useally always a shorter measurement. To straighten, hook a chain to the top rail of the frame at the crossmember area on one side thru the radiator stud bolt hole, then drape the chain under the crossmember and up to the other side and hook it to the top of the frame thru the other bolt hole. Leave enough slack to put a hydraulic bottle jack on top of the chain in the center and up to the crossmember. By using the jack to "stretch" or "tighten" the chain it will twist the frame and crossmember back into alignment. Sounds like a lot of work but it really is a easy job. It useally is easier to have to people to do it. Another trick of measureing the corner to corner is make a long "trammell point" I use t long wood sticks that will reach corner to corner and overlap somewhat. I then drive a finish nail thru each end to give me a pointer to measure with. By clamping the 2 sticks together you can fine tune the measuremnt between the 2 finish nail/pointers to what you need. It is a lot more accurate than using a tape measure. One other thing is you will need to use a hammer, and hit and bang the areas you are stressing. Don't beat the $%^#& out of it just work on it a little here and there, to help stress relieve the areas you are trying to fix. Good luck... let us know how it turns out ...
I always check the frame as the first part of a restoration so I have never done it with the engine in the car but would certainly give it a try. I would first take the bolts out of the crankcase arms however to avoid warping the pan. I would also unbolt the front motor mount and the body bolts. You may find that after the frame is straightened it will be hard to get the crankcase arms bolted back because if the frame was racked it probably twisted the pan as well. I would do what Andrew suggests as it is possible that you can tweak the body enough to make it work and avoid getting into a much bigger project.
Are you using the ones that came off of the car ?
My 23 was apart for about 1 yr , when I was working on it I continually checked to make sure everything lined up,
after I painted the shell , the firewall bracket did not line up ?????
after banging my head for a few days , I checked the brackets ,
they where NOT the same on both sides , my father had found a "shinier| one in the parts box and changed the passenger side bracket , measuring them side by side there was almost a 1/4 inch difference in the "offset" ,
I am not sure if different models / years / or US vS Canadian was the issue , set your brackets on a flat surface and check
Is the body bolted on tightly? You might be able to loosen the body bolts and then push and pull enough to make it line up. You might need a drift to coax it into place.
I believe those carriage bolts should be step bolts. They are for 1911. Be sure to file the markings off the heads of your modern step bolts, then throw them in some muriatic acid to eat away the zinc coating before you paint them. Do have square nuts on the bracket side? Same treatment. I believe the top hole on the bracket on the driver side lines up with the steering column bolt.
Note the step bolts heads, not carriage bolts on the front of the dash for the dash to body brackets down on the sill.
Those of you with sharp eyes will notice the two different colors of paint as well as dash stain color. The first photo was taken about a year before I bought the car, the second was about two years after owning the car.
: ^ )
This is an easy one you have the wrong year bracket. It looks like you have a wooden fire wall if you do you have a bracket for a metal fie wall.
It's an early, flat wood firewall car, Dave - I've never seen a bracket that mounted at the top of the frame that didn't use a wood firewall ?
If the frame has NOT been totally checked for straight top surface, correct width between the radiator mounting stud holes, and diagonal corners equal (frame thus "square") you will save yourself a ton of time and work to simply pull the body off at this point and pull the engine out too and get the frame as near perfect as you can before you go any further. Otherwise if you try to put the body on and make things fit up with no regard for what is straight and what isn't, you will find yourself with an ever increasing list of things that don't fit. Radiator, hood, body, sheet metal,....etc all depend on the frame being straight, level, and square. There are just too many things yet to go that will not fit either if you have forced anything to fit a bent frame. Just bite the bullet at this juncture and pull back to the frame checking step and really really check the frame carefully. There are drawings available for free (I made a couple of them) at the MTFCI web site or in the www.funprojects.com library. Download a copy and check your frame against them and ask us how to fix whichever dimensions are wrong. If you do that then assembling your car will be fun and everything will fit nice on the finished car even if you have to do a bit of work along the way.