Jay – thanks for posting this and so many other great early photos. Also thanks to others posting the early photos – some of us are always looking for additional details about the Fords etc.
Notice it is the English drop frame chassis and body. Easy to spot from the side by looking at the rear door. Notice it has a cut out similar in shape to the 1926-27 improved models so the door will clear the rear fender. The standard USA 1925 and earlier non-drop frame bodies had the small rounded bottom rather than the cut out to clear the fender. Note the enclosed car on the right of the photo also has the Drop Frame front axle.
I wish more Fords had come with the date they were assembled painted on the sides. That would make dating cars in photographs a lot easier!
APR 17, 1925 Ford Factory letter
The 250,000th Ford left the final assembly line in Manchester, England. English Fords are about 90% British material. "All cylinder blocks are cast and machined in the plant at Cork, Ireland, which operates under the name of Henry Ford & Son, Ltd."
Does anyone have a reference for what the engine serial number of the 250,000 British Model T was? I suspect it would be in the 11,272,001 to 11,287,000 range as those 15,000 serial numbers were supplied to Cork Ireland to be stamped on engines produced there and were taken from the Feb 26, 1925 engine log date. (ref page 532 of Bruce McCalley’s “Model T Ford” available from the club at: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/model-t-ford-the -car-that-changed-the-world or the vendors. Also available on CD (I think the best value – as it includes other books and information in addition to most of the original book that has additional information added see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/333725.html?1357665853 ) It may also have used up one of the last of the serial numbers from a previous 15,000 numbers sent from the Oct 14, 1924 engine log date numbers 10,625,001 to 10,640,000 ref page 531 of Bruce’s book.) Note Bruce commented that he did not always show the shipment of “block numbers” to the branches. So there is a chance that additional serial numbers were sent between the 15,000 sent on Oct 14, 1924 and the 15,000 sent Feb 26, 1925. If anyone has additional data on serial numbers (not engines – just the serial numbers) sent to Cork etc. please let us know and/or point us to the reference etc. Thank you for your help.
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You will find some information on English Model T numbers in Appendix 4 of the book " The English Model T Ford ". I think you probably have a copy. There are also pictures of the car on pages 173 & 175.
Best regards, John
Thanks. Yes, I have the book and I will check those pages.
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If it was built in 1926 why does it have the earlier hood ?
Note the English 'drop-frame' axle in the car on the right. The 250,000 had it too.
The car was built in May 1925 (hence earlier 'bonnet' or hood). However, as 'The English Model T Ford' book explains, this car was unlikely to have been the 250,000th Model T built in Britain. That would have been produced around July.
Explanation? Ford need to promote springtime sales!
Interesting that it has a top boot. They didn't offer them in the U.S. in 1925.
The British also had the drop frame models that the USA did not offer as well as the fender lights and 4 doors starting sometime during the 1918 production. And they offered two tone body colors in 1925 (ref page 167 "The English Model T Ford" -- great book -- I did not have access to my copy earlier.)
There is always so much more to learn.
Yes, on pages 171 to 172 of "The English Model T Ford" book addresses the 250,000th Ford produced in Great Britain. Like many milestone cars it was more representative than actually the exact number. That was true of even the USA 15,000,000 Model T Ford. Yes it did clearly have engine serial number 15,000,000 and the same number was stamped onto the frame. But clearly no one knows when the actual 15,000,000 Model T Ford was assembled or which assembly line produced it. The Model T with serial number 15,000,000 was clearly well documented but the one that was actually the 15,000,000 Model T Ford to be assembled – no one knows when or where that car was assembled. Clearly they could pick a year and probably narrow it down to a month – but which plant – I don’t think they could tell. And it easily could have been a tie with several cars being produced during the same time frame. Note the B-engine serial numbers were not included nor were the Canadian C-prefix serial numbers included in the 15,000,000 serial number listing/count.
The same is also true of the 20,000,000 Ford which was a 1931 Slant Windshield Model A. They needed a car to bolster sales and they picket the new Slant Windshield to be that car and made it the 20,000,000 Ford. For a good article on the 20,000,000 Ford produced -- a 1931 Slant Windshield Model A Town Sedan please see: http://www.mafca.com/downloads/Restorer/20M_2001.pdf
But in the case of Ford of England, they used serial numbers taken from the USA serial number range. So there was not any 250,000 stamped on the engine (at least I don't think there was. But again that was one of the original questions -- does anyone know what the engine serial number was of the 250,000 English Ford)?
According to the "The English Model T Ford" book, the 250,000 Model T produced in Britain would most likely have occurred in Jul of the same year – a few months later. But they wanted to promote the spring sales so they produced it earlier.
While reading about that, I learned that Ford England had actually begun obtaining raw castings from Cork, Ireland and was machining and assembling the engines and then applying the USA supplied serial numbers to them. Therefore it would have been most likely Manchester rather than Cork that supplied the completed engine already stamped with the engine serial number. I wonder if they stamped it with a regular USA sequence engine serial number as mentioned above (and also listed in the Appendix 4 of “The English Model T Ford" book.)? I would guess if you are building your own engine and stamping a serial number onto the block – you could stamp whatever number you wanted on one block and get away with it. Anyway, just curious on what the engine number was on that car.
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All, if that car was an April, 1925 production, the 21" balloon tyres were introduced earlier than I thought. I have seen 23"clincher tyres on improved cars, but not 21" balloon tyres on earlier cars.
Do I need to revise my thinking?
Allan from down under.
15,000,000 plus cars and so many improvements and changes introduced often at different times in different locations. There is just a lot of information to keep track of.
Yes, the 21 inch balloon tires (tyres) were introduced by Ford USA as an option for the 1925 model year ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wheels 1925
Same wheels as above but 21” balloon tire/wheels an option.
For Canada, the Jan 1, 1925 edition of the Price List of Parts has the 21 inch balloon wheels listed for 1924 [it doesn’t state if that is for 1924 model year … but cars produced the later part of 1924 would have had that option. ] I’m not sure when they were introduced to Australia, but they were in use by Canada that supplied most of the imported parts to Australia. I looked but I did not quickly find a good photo of a new Dalgety Ford with the balloon tires. I suspect some would have been equipped with those. If someone has additional information on when the 21 inch balloon tires (tyres) were available in Australia, please let us know.
For England, on page 230 of “The English Ford Book” under their timeline listing they show Balloon Tyres as an improvement under the Jan 1925.
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