Ok guys easy question, my engine has 11082527 stamped on the block. Was this the 11,082,527th motor that rolled off the line? What year does that date me engine? Thanks!
(Message edited by admin on December 02, 2013)
January 1925. It is the number of the car that rolled off the line.
And since you show a '23 in your profile, I guess that obviously mean's you're car has been re-powered, so the original '25 is either engineless or destroyed, or has it's own different engine.
I think the car in Rob's profile pic may be a '24 or '25. High radiator/hood/cowl, wide radiator splash apron, flanged fenders, etc. Larry Smith probably can list some other things to look for in dating it.
To pin it down a little closer: Thursday, January 22, 1925.
Looking at the door hinges in your profile, your T is a 1925.
Rob, if I had all the space you show in your profile picture I'd own 10 more Model T's.
Guys, its interesting that my T may be a 1925, I personally have no idea. My grandfather is no longer alive to ask as he originally assembled the car from parts he collected at swap meets and though old car part catalogs back in the 60s. I do know the transmission has the wider brake band making it older than the motor. I am assuming he found what he could and made it work. I will post some more pictures for further identification. Those that remember the car referred to it as a 1923, and some old pictures I have refer to it as a 23. Although now after the motor number and older tranny she may be a Frankenstein of many cars. Thanks for the input.
(Message edited by admin on December 02, 2013)
Additional Picture
(Message edited by admin on December 02, 2013)
I'm pretty sure that the wider brake band in the transmission is a newer feature, not older. I know that the "improved cars" of 1926-27 had it, but I don't know if it got phased in towards the end of 1925. Can any other members enlighten us?
Some of the 25's came with several of the '26-7 features. Many of those "improved car" parts were phased in during the '25 model year, rather than at the beginning of the '26 model year.
All production switched over to the improved style at engine #12,218,728 july 27, 1925. No 1925 style cars were built after that date. A few of the improved features may have been tested in production in the weeks before july 27, we have seen pictures of a '25 Fordor at the forum made in early july with the wide clutch and brake pedals, but without the new hogshead.
If Rob's grandfather put a '26/27 style transmission and hogshead on a january 25 engine, then the hogshead couldn't be bolted to the block like on the improved engines - but that's the only disadvantage. Then there's always a chance the engine is a 26/27 style replacement restamped with the # of the original engine - more detail pictures needed to identify what you've got (if you want )
The hogshead does have the two bolt ears at the top to bolt to the back of the engine but there is no where to put any bolts on the block so I assume its a pre 26/27 style.
(Message edited by admin on December 02, 2013)
(Message edited by admin on December 02, 2013)
I have seen several and also have a small brake drum with replaceable clips that the clutch disks drive on. These are the brake small drums.....not the wide style that is typical for 26/27.
Are they early style 25?
I know that the wide drum can be machined to look like the earlier style. however, looking at the one that I have, it looks original to me.
The brace holes and the wide pedals on your transmission, and the wide brake drum, say 26-27. The body and engine say 1925 or earlier. I can't tell from the pictures whether it's a low radiator (1923 or before) or high (1924-25). If you measure the height of the radiator we can pin that down.
Rob,
I think that Doug Money misspoke when he wrote that your's was the 11,082,527th Model T built. In fact, it is the 11,082,527th numbered motor assembled.
Ford Motor Company kept track of the numbered motors built, but the records indicate clearly that not all numbered motors built ended up in new Model Ts. The 1909-1911 Shipping Invoices in the collections of the Henry Ford clearly identify many motors that were not put into new cars, but were assembled and shipped out to replace the motors in existing cars. Model T #1 appears to have had as many as three differently numbered motors in it, including #1.
At the other end of the motor number range we know from the motor production records that 169,856 engines were assembled after the end of Model T car production at Highland Park. We also know that engines were not assembled into cars sequentially. Engines were shipped to the branch assembly plants by the box car load, but in what order they were sent to the assembly line is unknown.
It is also known that motors were assembled in Ford factories other than Highland Park and the Rouge. Domestically, some blocks of motor numbers were assigned to the Long Island branch where they did some motor assembly for a short time. Blocks of Model T motor numbers were also assigned to Cork, Ireland, and Manchester, England. And then there were the Canadian cars...
We aren't even too sure how many Model Ts were built in the US. We often say there were 15, 007,033 Model Ts built (15,007,039 if we add in the 6 additional Model Ts built by FMC in 2001-2003 for the Centennial), but again that is the last numbered engine installed into a Model T before the Highland Park assembly line was shut down.
Respectfully Submitted,
Trent Boggess
Les -- Yes, the narrow brake drums with the removable lugs are a '25 feature. Those drums will fit in earlier narrow-brake trannies and are desirable.
People ask me what year my speedster is and I'm at loss for an answer. My frame is from the teens, as are many of the parts. However, my original engine number was 14635093. It has been restamped with number3202817. Is there any reason to not use the earlier number when titling the car? Ed
The vast majority of DMV folks know nothing about antique cars. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, you could tell them it's a 1769 Cugnot steam wagon and they'd probably swallow it. A speedster being a mutt, you can pick your year. If I had a speedster I'd go by the engine number, which would also be stamped on the frame.