Should there be a gap between the rear drum and axle flange?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Should there be a gap between the rear drum and axle flange?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Saturday, December 07, 2013 - 11:19 am:

Here is a picture. Should the drum cover the axle? It is all rebuilt new repos.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Saturday, December 07, 2013 - 12:09 pm:

Something is wrong there that needs to be fixed...

The edge of the drum should be at least flush with the outside of the backing plate.

How does the other side look?

2 Things I can think of.

1- Some reproduction axle shafts have incorrectly made keyways and the hub sits up on the key instead of down on the taper like it should. Or the issue could be as simple as the key not being in the correct position. That could have the potential to make the hub sit "out" a little bit.

2- Axle shafts made by Texas T are 1/8" longer than they should be. I think they do this to "make up" for worn hubs. I've never used their shafts because of this... After all, if some other part of the assembly is worn out you should replace it, not buy a $100+ new part specially made to make up for a ~$10 part that can be easily changed, right?

Of course, there could be a variety of other issues, but I find these 2 the most common...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, December 07, 2013 - 12:17 pm:

Not having the spider gear housing centered can cause that. If the other side is flush or too deep on the backing plate that could be the problem combined with new longer axles it can make a big difference. I use the longer axles on all my rebuilds and they line up very well. I assume the hubs are worn and that turns out to be the case more often than not but even if they are not worn the space between the drum and the backing plate is minimal with the longer axles. But, before you go crazy, check to make sure the key did not slide back when you put the wheel on. If it slid back the wheel cannot seat properly on the axle no matter how tight you make it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 07, 2013 - 12:34 pm:

From the spring I gather this is on your '12. The picture shows us the left wheel, but how about the right side? Does it stick out too, or is it the opposite? If the latter, my next question is whether the thrust washers are good.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Saturday, December 07, 2013 - 04:27 pm:

I put both wheels on without the key wedge and they both go up the same amount. I have to go to a Christmas party now(rather go to the garage) so tomorrow I will revisit the wheel / axle debacle!
Thanks for your help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, December 07, 2013 - 08:03 pm:

Do you any shims stuck in the hubs? The new axles are made a little longer but that looks more then the approx 1/8 " longer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, December 08, 2013 - 11:46 am:

I had the same problem on my '12. When I rebuilt the rear end I shortened one axle and cut a new keeper slot. I never could find out a cause.
Works fine and looks good now. Check that both sides of the diferiental are the same length. Maybe an accident repair job?

Good Luck and let us know what You find.

Gene in Santiago, Chile


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, December 08, 2013 - 11:57 am:

Could it be something really simple like a new key that's too long or too far up the slot causing a locking situation and a gap? It does look like it's quite a bit out for something like that but, hey. Quest 1 as asked before: what's the other side like? (assuming it's OK since you didn't mention it). And 2: Pull the wheel, you're going to anyway, and try it without the key.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Sunday, December 08, 2013 - 12:25 pm:

Robert, just for reference, I asked about mine also, and was told this is what it should look like:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, December 08, 2013 - 07:15 pm:

Before you do any cutting or changing, try the hub on without the key and see if it fits better. If it is the same without the key, you have eliminated the key from the equasion and the trouble is elsewhere. I have thought that the longer axles were made so that you could install Rocky Mountain brakes without having to shim the hubs. If the problem is the same on both sides, your cause would be the same. If the axle on the other side is closer to the drum, your carrier is off center.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, December 08, 2013 - 08:34 pm:

"Before you do any cutting or changing, try the hub on without the key and see if it fits better. If it is the same without the key, you have eliminated the key from the equation and the trouble is elsewhere.

Good advice, Norm. It eliminates a lot of guesswork.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM WILSON, AMORY, MS on Sunday, December 08, 2013 - 10:00 pm:

Believe he said in his second post that he installed the wheels without the keys and saw no change.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, December 08, 2013 - 10:48 pm:

Well, after re-reading the thread, I see he certainly did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Sunday, December 08, 2013 - 11:05 pm:

This is a common problem because somebody thinks it's a good idea to make the axle shafts too long to allow you to use worn out hubs. (If memory serves, I believe it also has something to do with giving you a little more room for a Rocky Mountain brake drum... which not everybody uses.) Some gapping is o.k. but yours is extreme and should be corrected. I would send the photo to the supplier who sold you the shafts, (assuming you didn't make a boo boo somewhere), and ask them, "What now?".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, December 09, 2013 - 11:46 am:

That is what happens when you use those new axles that are 1/16" longer! It's better to stick with the original FORD design.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leonard J Evansic on Monday, December 09, 2013 - 10:10 pm:

This problem can occur if one is trying to make a good rear end out of two bad ones. In other words, the punkin {sp] is good on one and the hubs are good on the other. Saw cuts are minimal, about 1/16 0f an inch, but left hand and right hand parts must be kept separated and measured separately for proper assembly.
The reason for this is, the when the punkin haves come together, you have a male and a female half and the over all dimensions can get messed up and this condition can happen.
I really can't say this is what happened, but I found this on a 15 and the the rear end was beautiful. A bearing race was inserted inside for alignment and the weld was undetectable.
The fix---Cut the center out of a brake drum, have it turned and welded to the outside of a good drum by a good welder. This would close most of that gap. It would help to take a hub with you so he can see how important it is to align the center hole. You will have to mount it on your wheel and dedicate that wheel to that axle, or leave it as it is and live with it as I did.---Len

PS The reason it must be welded, is the drum material is thicker than the flange on the hub, and it would move and come apart in no time. Washers or spacers will not work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leonard J Evansic on Monday, December 09, 2013 - 10:19 pm:

After I posted,I found I used the word hub for two different parts. I'm not sure what to call the outside end of an axle housing when it is cut in half, but I'm sure you guys know what I meant. Sorry ---Len


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, December 10, 2013 - 01:16 pm:

Robert,

There's no chance that you've got the brake drum located on the wrong side of the hub flange, is there?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, December 10, 2013 - 01:33 pm:

Gap seems a bit wide for a 1/16" to 1/8" longer axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, December 10, 2013 - 01:50 pm:

I'm not near my car but can somebody measure how deep the drums are supposed to be? Maybe earlier in life the drums were getting close to the flange and somebody decided to narrow the drums a little to keep some clearance. Wouldn't be the craziest thing ever done on a T.

Anyway, just a thought I had. Maybe the axles and hubs are ok. Also, looking at your picture Robert, is the gap the same size all the way around? It looks like maybe the gap is bigger at the top - you may have a bent axle tube or bent flange if the gap isn't the same.

Jerry: I think the drum sits flush against the wood and even with the hub - it's a tight fit but it slips around the outside edge of the hub I think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, December 10, 2013 - 04:54 pm:

Seth,

No, the drum goes on the backside of the flange and locates on a raised boss. The spokes go directly against the hub flange with no drum in between.


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