Any serial number higher than 3,138,400 on a non-starter block T-400C ?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: Any serial number higher than 3,138,400 on a non-starter block T-400C ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, December 17, 2013 - 09:29 pm:

To avoid high-jacking the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/408449.html?1387307071 Does anyone know of a May 1919 or later engine serial number greater than higher 3,138,400 that is a T-400C block without the provision for a generator to be added to the block, please let us know the engine number, casting date, and if you know it was originally installed in a car or TT etc.

Why? Because at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc19.htm for
MAY 28, 1919 Engine production records, Ford Archives
Last non-starter engine block made on this date.

Note that was recorded also on page 519 in Bruce McCalley’s “Model T Ford” and was based on the engine records at the Highland Park Plant. We know that they shipped engine blocks that were assembled at other locations (i.e. some of the Branch Assembly plants – Long Island is often mentioned; Ford of Canada was casting their own blocks, assembling their own engines and I do NOT know when they switched to the starter block and how much overlap between starter and non-starter blocks for Canada. For English Fords I do not have the data on them either. The last non-starter engine produced at Highland Park was on May 28, 1919 (number not recorded but the last serial number recorded in the Highland Park engine logs for May 27, 1919 was 3,134,021. So at Highland Park factory they had approximately 5 1/2 months when both style engine blocks were made into engines. And over 318,130 engine serial numbers were issued (again some were stamped on a completed engine at Highland Park and other serial numbers were sent to be stamped onto an engine assembled at a Branch Plant). Does anyone have or know of a 1919 non-starter (non-generator) engine block serial number higher 3,138,400 which was the last number recorded at the Highland Park for May 28, 1919?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 12:34 am:

Hap-
My non-generator 1919 engine, 3,013,893, is about 6 weeks before the change. April 8.

-Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 06:46 am:

Keith,

Thank you so much for the data point. Ford was still producing the “non-generator blocks” but I suspect they were producing fewer and fewer of them as the transition went over those 5 1/2 months when both styles were produced. And that was only about 10 days before Ford put out the word at http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/408449.html?1387307071 to stop putting the non-generator blocks in cars.

APR 18, 1919 Acc. 575, Box 11, #729, Ford Archives
T-400D (starter type) cylinder specified for all cars.
Note – that does not mean the car had a starter, but that the block installed in the car should have the capability for the generator to be added. And it also implies the trucks were still being fitted with the T-400C non-starter block. So we have about 3 1/2 months of overlap when the new style T-400D starter and the old style T-400C blocks were being installed in the open cars.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 08:36 am:

If it's of any use, the starter/generator engine in my Runabout #3125898 was cast Apr 1 1919 and assembled May 24 1919 at the Long Island City branch plant.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 07:49 am:

Dave,

Thank you for the data point. I would guess that you obtained the May 24, 1919 date from Bruce McCalley's serial number listing (page 519 of Bruce's book "Model T Ford"). Note May 24, 1919 was the date the serial numbers were sent to Long Island and probably was not the date the engine was assembled at Long Island and the serial number stamped onto the block. Based on the numerous entries of 200 serial numbers sent on numerous days to the Long Island branch assembly plant, the serial numbers would have been used relatively soon -- i.e. within a week would be my guess but it is only a guess. Note in the case of serial numbers sent to England / Ireland for use there -- when they sent 15,000 engine numbers on a single engine log date, some of those numbers would not be stamped onto an engine until perhaps months later. (Ref page 526, Apr 4, 1922 15,000 to Manchester and the next entry was Sep 5, 1922 with 15,000 to Manchester on page 527 and then 15,000 on April 3, 1923 etc.)

Do you have any other indications that the engine and/or car was produced at the Long Island Branch Plant?

Again thank you for the data point. Additional puzzle pieces are always appreciated. [Ok -- some of the information that may cause more questions than answers I may sometimes initially dislike -- but I get over that and get on with trying to discover more about the cars and how they were originally produced.]

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 01:56 pm:

Hap, I got my info from another member here who looked it up in that book. I guess then, my lowly branch plant car doesn't have a birthday I can celebrate, sort of like a leap year baby. Still, it's better to know the truth. Thanks. I don't think I have any other useful info on my car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 02:42 pm:

Actually, I should mention that my car has a lengthy number stamped into the passenger side floorboard riser but, it is a total blur. I can't make out even one number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 09:05 pm:

Dave,

Thank you for the clarification. If you take a look at the front seat heel panel (the part of the seat that if you were sitting down and kicked backwards the heel of your shoe would hit) you may find a letter. From the very little you have described, I would give you a 70% chance you will find a "B" on the heel panel and/or or the right front floor board riser. Also, is the riser metal or wood? For photos on where and what to look for please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40322.html I suspect the number on the right hand floor board riser is the body number. See: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm which states:

"JUN 26, 1915 Factory Letter
"Hereafter when ordering body panels for 1915 cars, please give both the car and body numbers. The body number will be found on the right sill just inside the front door. This number will be preceded by a letter which indicates by whom the body was made.
"The above information is necessary as panels for bodies made by our various suppliers vary somewhat." "


And far more important than a car adding to the data points/historical information is for a car to add to the fun of its owner. Your runabout/roadster looks like it would be a lot of fun to drive around. Ok -- maybe not in the winter time in Canada -- but spring through fall -- EH?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration