The guy at the snowblower repair outlet states that they use Star Tron all the time. Does it help in any way like StaBil or is it about as good as Marvel Mystery Oil? Maybe I need some bitumus roofing tar in my gas?
The tars just as good. Snow blowers are the worst because people forget how long the fuel is in there especially if it doesn't snow. Dose your unit run now and do you want to guarantee it'll run when you need it? Drain the fuel and run it till it quits. Stabil states on the can: will keep FRESH fuel fresh for whatever amount of time. Most people just dump it into whatever's in the tank. NG. Shelf life of modern fuel? 90 days. Your choice, your cash. Others will chime in: I've used this, I've used that and never had a problem. The fact is they've never left the fuel in the tank long enough to go bad. Period. If somebody tells you I left the fuel in something for 2 years with whatever additive in it and it ran perfectly they are, to quote Scotty the reporter to Dr.Carrington in the movie The Thing From Another World: Stuffed full of wild blue berry muffins.
StarTron is more popular in Maine than Stabil.
SeaFoam is more popular in Maryland for the boat owners here.
They all seem to work in the same manner.
I have been wondering if a little liquid dish washing soap would also work as well.
It did in our high school chemistry lab.
We put an ounce of water in with an ounce of motor oil and shook the solution rather violently. The next day it had all separated again with the oil floating on the water.
Then, we put an ounce of water in with an ounce of motor oil and some liquid soap. Again we shook the solution rather violently. The next day it had not separated at all. The oil was still homogenized with the water, like modern milk with the cream.
Modern gas might work the same way.
There is a company that advertises constantly on the local farm channel a product that (according to their ads) keeps your septic tank working properly. You pour the liquid in your toilet, then flush it.
Sea Foam and Stabil "work" the same way. You are just flushing money down the toilet. All these products are aimed at the same audience - people who have enough money that they don't think about what is being promised and why.
If you are going to store your Model T, snowmobile, mower, or anything else with a gas tank for more than 90 days just drain the gas.
I use marvel mystery oil all the time.I am running
a five ball carb.
In 1992 in Vermont I thought I broke a crankshaft.
The engine locked up.It was not the crank.My point is that I did not try to fix the car till September.
The tour was in July. When we got the car running
again the gas had messed up the carb from sitting.
I put Seamist in it to get the five balls working again.
Over the winter I use STAR-TRON emzyme fuel treatment. I never drain the tank. I start the car
ever now and than.
I use StarTron now. Had a bottle of Stabil that sat a little longer than normal, as it got hidden behind some other stuff on the shelf. When I looked at it, it had purple crystals precipitated on the bottom. Somewhat alarmed, I called the makers. They informed me that the fine print on the label says it is good for two years. I looked, and it did.
Star tron works, I use it in everything now. I almost ruined my chainsaw with the ethanol, started using star tron and no more problems. KGB
I've been using Star-Tron for years and the stuff does what the advertising says it will. Stabil is good; Star-Tron is better.
It would be nice if we had someone with an actual professional chemistry background to evaluate some of the claims of these products to let us pedestrians know what they really do. In the past I've used most of the products mentioned here with the exception of Star-Tron. My preference is just to shut off the fuel and run the carb dry, then pop the bowl off to clean it out for long term term storage as well as siphon the gas out of the tank. Can always use it in the car or truck. For modern stuff with injectors that can't be run dry, I have used Marine Stabil in the past with good results for several month storage. "Good results" means is starts up and runs without issues. If I have an excessive moisture problem with fuel, a little isopropol seems to solve that on a limited basis.
I don't know if this has any bearing on the subject or if it is just an observation. My wife's motorhome sat for 1 1/2 years without moving. I got in it to drive it down to the house and it started instantly. I keep a solar battery maintainer on it and and we always park it with a FULL tank of fuel. I have learned that a full gas tank seems to last longer than a tank with just a gallon or two in it.
Bill I think you are right. I have made my living for 45 years as a mechanic and was never impressed with most additives. There are only three I use, Lucas oil stabilizer, Lubeguard for automatic transmissions(recommended by many re builders) and now Star-Tron. They work, but you don't have to take my word for it. Matter of fact don't! I will get more business! KGB
Yea,dont do anything but leave gas to get old in the tank if you love your mechanics.
Startron is what I use now and it has not hurt anything.
Lets put it this way, I have carried a pocket knife since I was 12. I have not been trampled by a elephant yet.Perhaps the knife has kept away all the elephants?
Who knows anymore what works and what dont .I just know what the carburetors look like that have ethanol fuel left in them and it aint purty and it aint cheap to fix.
Most of my piddly side work is carb cleanings-overhauls.
Slight drift but most 2 cycle engine manufacturers have a clause in the warranty that states if the fuel is over 45 days old,warranty is void if brought in for repair.
If you buy your gas at a small station with lo volume sales your gas could be a month old when you buy it,so keep that in mind.
You're right about the warranty business Mack. Read the fine print. But it's kind of up to the repairman to open his mouth or not about it. We used to put additive in our repairs during the winter months but only because the chimps that talk asked if it was there. We sold star tron and stabil but never pushed it. If they took it off the shelf we sold it. No recommendations. It does nothing except lighten that piece of dead cow in your back pocket.
I don't put anything in my gas tank other than gas. I let it sit over the winter months. When it gets warm enough to drive again, I start the car and off I go.
At least here in Jax fl you can get ethanol free gas but you pay about $4.00 a gal so for long storage I use that,.. normal drive every weekend I use whatever it's not the gas you run through your system that hurts the system it's the gas you let sit!
I try to run ethanol free fuel. I add ATF, about a ½+ ounce/gallon of fuel. The lab guys at work say that modern fuels are very dry compared to old school fuel. I was told AFT is a good lubricant for old engines, snow blowers, and mowers. I have been using AFT for a little more than 2 years now will absolutely no side effects. Am I wasting AFT? I do not know, but with the first application I could hear the T engine run a lot smoother and quieter. So I keep using ATF.
I don't think its just the ethanol fuel that causes the problem. I distinctly remember the days when all you could get was straight gasoline and we had just as much trouble with "varnish" and carbs gumming up.
OK, so maybe back then it took 120 days instead of 90, but it still happened.
The only way I ever found to stop it was either to constantly use the machine and add fresh gas or to drain the tank AND most importantly ..... run the engine till the carb is dry.
My neighbor uses his outboard infrequently. He pulls the gas line but never runs the carb bowls dry. In the past 2 years he's had to have the carbs cleaned 3 times- since he doesn't do it himself - its expensive and he complains a lot. I have never had to clean carbs on my outboards unless I've bought them used and they were gummed up then.
If your not gonna use any motor for 3 months or so - drain the gas and run the carb dry ! Better yet, install a shutoff valve and run the carb dry even if your not gonna use it for a month.
Then you can quit whining about your carbs messing up.
Bud; I agree on anything that uses gas that is not used every day when you finish using it run the carb dry with me I have always don this as far back as the "Lawn Boy" I used to cut our lawn when I was about 8 it was just something my dad did and I guess I picked it up from him.
"If you are going to store your Model T, snowmobile, mower, or anything else with a gas tank for more than 90 days just drain the gas."
Just drain the gas? And do what with it? Sounds like you're the one flushing money down the toilet Royce.
For what it's worth I add the prescribed about of Marvel Mystery oil and Stabil to each 5 gallon can before filling it up. That way whatever it goes in gets treated automatically.
I find that Stabil is better as a proactive treatment and Startron as a reactive treatment.
When I drain good gas I put it in the car I drive every day. When I drive, the gas gets used. Then it gets returned to the environment as spent hydrocarbons, some water vapor, and oxides of nitrogen.
Bad gas makes great weed killer. No sense wasting it!
Same here . As long as you don't add anything to the fuel I don't have a problem with dumping it into the modern. That quarter pint (usually less) that might be left in say a 2 cycle gas trimmer goes into the waste oil/oil change can and gets disposed of properly. I bet, in the last 8 years, I haven't "wasted" the price of a can of additive. Listen guys, I get it. "I've spent my money and I'll defend it to the end". I'd add "even though I can't prove any thing" to that.
I worked as a petroleum chemist for 25 years.We always referred to these products as "snake oils" If you like spending your money on them and/or it makes you feel good,then by all means continue as long as you can afford it.I have never seen a need for them,and maybe they work,or maybe you are just wasting your money.. Most Branded oil companies use the right amount of additives/stabilizers in their products.
Fuel system treatments like Stabil, StarTron, etc are a product that does fill one particular consumer need:
These products offer a CERTAIN DEGREE of security and protection to people who are incapable of or to lazy to do the task correctly.
Doing the task correctly will offer the HIGHEST DEGREE of security and protection.
I have found this to be the case with most any "mechanic in a can" product.
You're very close Adam. In fact I believe you've hit it. "I can forget it. I'm protected and there's no need to do any thing more until I need the machine again". I've said it before: You put this stuff in and it runs great after whatever ammount of time. That's because you haven't reached the tipping point where the fuel just goes bad. Why am I so against this stuff? Because after 5 years of working as a mechanic for a small engine repair shop I've seen, thousands of times, what this stuff does. Which is nothing except give false sense of security to the user. Wrecked snow blower carbs? Hundreds. Their the worst because if it doesn't snow the owner forgets how long the fuel is in there. Money wasted. If it ran when you drained it it'll run when you re-fill it. Period.
With all due respect to the folks who hold degrees in chemical engineering and who feel that adding snake oil to the mix only puts a band-aid on a tourniquet-sized problem: I'm reminded of the flight instructors who taught us "weight & balance" in flight school and said such things as, "If you want to carry more people, you'll have to off-load some fuel."
Now, that's all well and good in theory, but the fact remains, there's no practical way to off-load the contents of a fuel tank and dispose of the stale gasoline in a way that won't arouse the ire of the EPA. Even if there were such a method, we just don't have energy to waste.
Then there's the problem of winter condensation—another nail my flight instructors liked to hammer on: If, with the good intent to avoid dealing with stale gasoline come the spring thaw, you burn off your fuel through normal operation and leave your tank empty during the cold winter months, water will condense from the air inside and collect at the bottom where it will, at the very least, contaminate the next fill-up of fresh gasoline, or, more seriously, cause corrosion at the bottom of the tank.
So, what's the answer? Well, if you're like me and prefer life to be simple, you'll just pour in a bottle of Stabil or Star-Tron. If, on the other hand, you happen to be super-affluent and can afford to run the furnace in your 30-car garage (perhaps on stale gasoline you've drained from the gas tanks of the vehicles in your collection), hey, more power to ya!
Don't you always, on a pre-flight inspection, drain a bit of fuel from each tank? And you're looking for what? Condensation. From a re-fill or infiltration by some other means. So if you're always checking and it's sometimes there what does an additive do? And what's already in 100 octane leaded aviation gas?
I try to keep my T's in the upright position and well below the 5 ft level.
Tiz true; I always drained a bit of fuel from the sumps to check for water, but in twenty years, my beloved Navion never accumulated any. Perhaps part of the reason for that was I kept the tanks full. But avgas isn't infused with alcohol, so it has less of a propensity to separate out like salad dressing.
Water in a car's gas tank is very different than water in an airplane's gas tanks. A friend of mine was killed because of water trapped in the folds of the rubber bag-type fuel tanks in his Twin Cessna, but in an old car, the most serious thing about watery fuel is corrosion and a hickuppy engine. As it happens, the sump bulb on my Model T does have a drain, so I can get the water out, but I still use Star-Tron because the car runs so much better when I do. Not being a chemist, I can't speak authoritatively as to how or why the stuff does what it does, but as my doctor says, "If wearing a funny hats makes you feel better, then wear a funny hat."