For long tours question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2013: For long tours question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 09:21 pm:

does anyone add anything to the gas or oil to help ease wear of the engine/rearend etc on long tours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 09:35 pm:

I add some Marvel Mystery Oil to my gas, but I do it all the time, not just for long tours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 10:17 pm:

most everyone i know runs Marvel in their gas 24/7. I think that is pretty much the go-to answer for this question. I know two guys that run marvel and a Lucas ethanol stabilizer in their cars as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 10:27 pm:

There is no reasonable explanation for anyone adding oil to the gas in a four stroke / cycle engine. It is simply a way to cake carbon on the valves and create stuck piston rings. Very foolish, yet you cannot convince people who do this just how bad an idea that it is.

Adding oil to the gas does the same thing as an engine with worn out rings. It creates a situation where you are burning oil all the time. There is no benefit to adding oil to the combustion chamber. It increases the tendency to have preignition and lowers octane.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Sorenson-Lake Arrowhead,CA on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 10:59 pm:

That why the call it Marvel Mystery Oil.....Who knows all it does .I always put just a little in my "Ts" when I filled them up....My 48 Flathead in the Station Wagon loves just a little..Some people swear by it,others swear at it.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 11:56 pm:

Here is a story about my Late Uncle. In 1949 he bought a '49 Ford in K.C. Mo. He drove it from the new car lot to the Service Shop and had a Marvel Mystery Oiler installed. At 49,000 he pulled the heads to check the carbon on the pistons and heads, and for cylinder wear, and found the normal carbon deposit but hardly no noticeable wear, so needless to say he swore by the oiler. I do not know if they are still available like it was in the 40's and 50/s.
Have Very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to one and all
bill d


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 12:05 am:

Try a half teaspoon of modified bitumen roofing tar per gallon of gasoline. You'll be amazed by the results.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 08:49 am:

Steve;
HO HO HO. Merry Christmas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave DeYoung on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 09:05 am:

Nothing to the gas, but I do make sure to keep the front end lubed up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Conklin on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 09:18 am:

As long as the proper levels are maintained neither will be a problem on a tour.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 09:19 am:

Tyrone, I also add 4 oz. of MMO to each 10 gallon Model T fill up but some guys use 2 cyl. engine oil like for chain saws. I use MMO in this amount because of a lack of upper engine lubrication- as in int./exh. valve stem lubrication. . . . . and I don't consider this practice "foolish".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 10:13 am:

I add MMO sporadically - as in when I think of it - rather than ritually. I used to think it was snake oil. But then I met an airline pilot, private plane pilot, T owner and son of an HCCA past president. He is buddies with a guy who rebuilds small airplane engines, who says when he gets one that has used MMO, it's clean. The others are crudded up. Anecdotal, not scientific, but good enough for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Gall on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 10:53 am:

Instead of adding oil to the gasoline, why don't you run good gas instead? Top Tier gasoline has better additives including detergents to keep intake valves and carburetors clean, much better than adding snake oil to gas:

"The intention of the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards is to create a winning situation for gasoline retailers, auto manufacturers and drivers. Currently, many gasoline retailers provide fuels with lower-quality additive packages that can build up deposits on fuel injectors and on intake valves. Others can build up deposits in combustion chambers and may lead to intake valve sticking. These lower levels of additives can have negative impacts on engine performance and vehicle responsiveness."

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

It's kind of like running detergent oil but instead you're running detergent gas! ;-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 11:06 am:

Any body care to guess what a service manager would say to you if you brought your modern into the dealer for some kind of warranty engine work and you told him you were dumping that "stuff" into your motor? Aside from will you pay for that by check or credit card that is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 12:06 pm:

Charlie,

Most shops don't have "service" managers; maybe managers but not "service" managers. And I doubt that a mechanic would be able to tell if you did put MMO in the gasoline tank unless you did tell them. They are not mechanics they are "part replacers" they only do what the computer readout tells them. I'm sure if some of the young mechanics would see what most of us on this forum tear down, rebuild, or manufacture to repair our cars they would flip out. And it is not just our Model t's that we make parts for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 12:42 pm:

Dealers, which I mentioned, have service managers and I also mentioned that "if you told them". (well my dad did it for years to prevent whatever). Additives void warranties mostly because you're introducing a foreign substance to oil or fuel that's not supposed to be there according to the manufacturers. They don't care that they don't do anything their looking for an out on warranty work. Problem is their right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 12:47 pm:

Im not sure why some dont like the practice of using MMO or similar product. It makes sense to me. However, just because everyone does it, does not mean its right..... but i think it is :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 12:51 pm:

I think at least part of the point with MMO in the gas is that the gas we are running today is much different than what the manufacturer intended to be run in our Ts.

I know a lot of folks disagree and think it's snake oil. Ok, fine. Don't run it in your car. I personally feel like my T runs a little harsher, a little more severely one straight gas. That's why I add the MMO, I like how it changes the way my T runs. As much as some folks feel like running MMO or any other additive are idiots for doing so, I think folks running straight gas are silly cause that sure isn't what their T ran originally. But I don't force my theory on anybody - I just answered the OP "Hey, here's what I do."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 02:26 pm:

Tyrone
If your question is about adding something for taking a T on long tours as opposed to a short drive, my answer is nothing.
Change the oil every 1000 miles, buy what ever gas you find. We do long distance tours. 5,500, 4,000 and a couple of 3,500 plus over the last few years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 02:29 pm:

Charlie,

It is just hard to get "service" anywhere anymore. When I first moved to Ohio I took my brand new truck to a local dealer because I was having difficulty with it. It was under manufacture warranty but the "service" manager refused to look at it or even offer any suggestions. He said take it back where you bought it! I tried to explain to him that I moved from another state and need assistance with a manufacture warranty. Again he told me take my truck back to where I bought it and to get out of his service area!
Guess where I'll never buy a truck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 05:11 pm:

I had the same issue with a dealer years ago and went right back to the manufacturer and raised hell. Guess who is not a dealer anymore!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 06:06 pm:

My first T's short block was rebuilt by a then 93 year old mechanic who had worked on the T assembly line in the 20's. He told me when I picked up the block to be sure to add MMO to the gas. I asked him how much should be added to a tankful and he said, "Oh, about one good teacupful."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 06:20 pm:

The gas we have today is in most ways far superior to gas available while Model T's were being made. Its worst trait is that it evaporates; and when it evaporates it does not burn well. Eventually (after a year or so) modern gas becomes a substance that consists mostly of the additives and then it becomes corrosive and sticky.

In the days from around 1955 to just prior to about 1970 gasoline octane was achieved through refining iso - octane and also by adding tetra ethyl Lead (TEL) which does not degrade anywhere near as fast.

Oil in the gas in a four cycle engine is bad - whether it is Marvel or vegetable or castor. It just doesn't belong there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, December 25, 2013 - 12:25 pm:

I just let the oil getting past the rings take care of upper lubrication.
What do you consider a long trip? Longest I have done is about 120-130 miles round trip. Just checked the fluids and air in tires about the same as for any drive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Wednesday, December 25, 2013 - 09:53 pm:

Mark, how long? Portland Org. to portland Me. Some 3100 + miles. Changing oil half way using a non detergent. Average of 45 mph.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, December 25, 2013 - 10:15 pm:

Cool! That is a long trip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Given - St. Paul, MN on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 12:16 am:

I try to run ethanol free fuel. I add ATF, about a + ounce/gallon of fuel. The lab guys at work say that modern fuels are very dry compared to old school fuel. I was told AFT is a good lubricant for old engines, snow blowers, and mowers. I have been using AFT for a little more than 2 years now will absolutely no side effects. Am I wasting AFT? I do not know, but with the first application I could hear the T engine run a lot smoother and quieter. So I keep using ATF.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 07:26 am:

Jason - I call BS on that.

A few years ago I contacted an Exxon Mobil engineer to ask about the idea of adding ATF to either gasoline or oil. I had to ask both questions because people who own Model T's do strange things. I posted the answer here on the T Forum.

The answer from the Exxon Mobil engineer was really simple - don't do that, there is only disadvantage to that sort of thinking. Automatic transmission fluid is made for - surprise - automatic transmissions, and in some cases power steering. It doesn't help adding it to anything else. It can do damage in fact.

My question to you - what qualifications do your "lab" people have to make recommendations that are in direct opposition to industry leading petroleum engineers?

There seems to be no answer to what makes modern fuel "dry" - another old BS wives tale with no merit.

I am sorry if the complete rejection of what you are saying upsets you or anyone else, it is just plain silly and I am here to tell you exactly that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 08:23 am:

I don't have the miles many here do but I have done some long tours in all kinds of weather. So far I have had great results from using bargain brand oil in the oil. 50/50 water/antifreeze in the radiator, gas in the gas. Just old 87 octane. 85w-140 lube in the Ruckstell rear end. Marine rated grease in everything else. Anderson timer. runs great, very dependable. Lots of fun on tour. YMMV Happy touring in 2014.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 10:12 am:

in the 70's i worked for warden oil in mpls. we made our atf using straight 20 oil with red dye and some additive to help preserve rubber seals etc. the big boys may do it different, but thats how we did it. i run plain ol' gas in my old cars, and infact somtimes get free gas from a marina here that drains the tanks when servicing the boats. it is a mix of every thing, 2cycl, old, new, maybe even some water. i do not use it in my modern cars or chainsaws, but the old cars just love it, and so do i!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 10:23 am:

I'd make a joke that I add a teaspoon of rear end lube to every tank of gasoline and get great results but I'd be afraid someone would believe me. I am in Royce's corner on this one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 10:46 am:

Clayton that's funny, I used to live in St Paul in the 1970's and probably used some of that. I was so poor I bought recycled oil and el cheapo brand power steering and transmission fluids. My cars back then used lots of oil and fluids due to wear and leaks. It was usually cheaper to buy another $100 beater car than to fix anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Baker on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 11:33 am:

I have used a product called Sea Foam check out the web site and reviews. I use it in my diesel snow blowing tractor.....this is Minnesota - 30below is possible I run straight number 2 diesel and it works as a anti gel, it also seems to benefit my lawn equipment and other gas engines and collector cars, I much prefer it for a fuel stabilizer too.
What sold me a few years back at a large AACA meet at the Gilmore Museum in Michigan ,I was talking to some of the people with the high dollar cars and this product came up as a must for them, it got my attention and is reasonable if you buy it on sale or at a farm store.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 12:02 pm:

I dunno'. Checking sea foams site for the benefits of sea foam is like leaving Soupy Sales to guard a pie wagon. What do you expect them to say?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 01:08 pm:

So are you saying that people who own high dollar cars are somehow more technically informed? My personal experience is that technically informed people know better.

I also find it curious that you are adding diesel oil to your gasoline as an "anti gel" - what on earth does that mean?

Diesel is lower octane than gasoline, and it is heavier than gasoline because it contains more lubricant. Adding diesel to gasoline will cause the octane to be lowered, contribute to preignition and accelerate carbon deposits on the rings, valves, and in the combustion chamber. Very similar to adding oil to the gas - a bad idea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 12:53 am:

Royce

David is using Sea Foam in his diesel fuel and his gasoline.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 09:05 am:

Richard

Tried the rear end lube - its OK but Yak piss works better. Its a little more expensive, but .....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 07:47 pm:

Wild Turkey 101. One ounce with water, or without water, or instead of water. for the driver. AFTER a day on the tour.


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