I saw on the classifieds where Ben Lefebre posted about getting scammed, then, someone else almost did. I just talked to Ben, and he said the address was near Kansas City--same place the guy was who backed off when the customer said he'd pick up the stuff. How do we protect ourselves from this? Is paypal safer? I've never had a problem, but, I used to be concerned buying over Ebay and paying with USPS money orders. I know picking up and paying cash is best, but, not always possible. Maybe we need to help each other out through our network of folks on the Forum--maybe if we told the prospective seller that a friend who lived nearby would come and check out the merchandise, we'd be able to tell from his reaction if he was legitimate. Any ideas?
i was told by a friend years ago to use postal money orders. he said that if someone tries to scam you that the post master generals office investigates it as mail fraud. i'm not sure if this is true or not, but on the other hand i've used pay pal many times and have never had a problem.
I sold a Model T to a guy, just recently, and he paid cash, $100.00 bills. Then, you get to wondering about counterfeit bills. How do u protect yourself from that, without checking every bill.
Going to the bank with the individual and having him stand there while you deposit the $100 bills will let you know if any of them are counterfeit. Yes, the bank has to be open. Note, the bank will check each bill and will let you know immediately if one is bad.
In general most of the Model T Folks are very trustworthy. We may differ on what we think an item is worth or what would be considered restored or unrestored. But most Model T Folks that I know of won't just steal from someone. But unfortunately there are folks that will steal and they know that if you find some trusting folks it is easier to steal from them. So they like us for that reason and not really the hobby.
A clue to potential trouble is someone wanting Western Union. In general it is not easy to track down etc. If someone has something for sale they normally will have an address. And while a personal check takes a lot longer – if you mail them a check to address you can at least track down the address (P.O. Box probably not as easy etc.). And for sure someone receiving a check will want to make sure it clears before sending off a part – so it won’t be an overnight purchase and delivery. Note the US Postal Money Order would also mean the person has an address you can check on.
Also if someone has been posting for sale items, wanted items, etc. for several years on the site it is a clue they are not just trying for a quick scam etc.
Note in the two cases just reported on in the classified, an individual contacted the “good guys” with “I have the parts you advertised for.” While someone may have a part they would like to sell and not be a member of a club or forum etc. I.e. they inherited the parts or purchased the farm and found the parts etc. there is still nothing wrong with asking for a reference and an address.
For some of us that remember the doors on the house and barn never being locked and the old cars that you could take the key out of the ignition but you could leave the ignition switch unlocked so all you had to do was turn it from “off” to start, many things have changed. In some cases we can be thankful for the advances in medicine and technology. In other cases we need to help one another avoid the scams etc. In this case thank you for pointing out the issue.
I would guess the phone that was used is one of the throw away phones – but if it wasn’t you may or may not be able to get it traced. But you might asked.
I recently advertised for a 115 tailamp, and got a reply from someone in Kansas. I emailed him back, and asked for a picture, and never heard from him again. I wonder if it is the same guy?
I wonder if Western Union would help -- since it sounds like this is a possible repeat person? I would guess they will not bother -- but we never know until we ask.
Hap l9l5 cut off
I had advertised on the HCCA site,wanting a brass headlight.
A fellow by the name of Garry Hardy,7050 W.,Frontage Rd.,Merriam,KS.,66012 replied to my ad.I sent him an email,but no reply.Before I sent him the email I checked several sites trying to find info on him,nothing found.I did find info on his address,its a new car dealer at that address.
Awhile back I advertised for a fan for my dad's '23. A guy responded in the typical poor generic English. Knowing it was a scam attempt, I asked for a photo. I figured that was the end of it, but the guy actually sent one. It was of a household window fan. And even that photo was lifted from some retailer's web site.
BTW: Mike Walker responded to my ad and sent Dad a very nice fan and bracket at a very reasonable price. So now we know he is legit. At least with T parts.
Garry Hardy apparently lives at a Hyundai dealership according to Google.
I advertised on another site for a Rudge wire wheel wanted. A would be scammer sent a picture of what he said he had for sale. It was of a Rudge wire wheel ( different size than I needed) that I myself had for sale. He had apparently googled for a picture and sent it to me!
Just asking for a picture is not good enough. After the first picture ask for a left or right side or detail, scammers usually cannot supply that!
Paypal payment is good, Paypal with the funds coming from your credit card is best. Both paypal and your credit card guarantee your satisfaction or your can return the merchandise, in this case get your money back.
Thanks, guys. Apparently, the guy has repeatedly done this using the same last name and same address. Since Ben's brother actually sent money, the guy must have connections at that car dealership that allows him to get mail addressed to his name at their address. Since I'm retired, I think come Monday, I'll try to track down a local law enforcement office for that area and see if I can spark enough interest there to get them to investigate before I start calling the dealership and chance spooking the guy. I'll let you know how it turns out.
It just hit me as I re-read my last post. The victim is in one state and the criminal is in another, and the funds went from state to state by mail. Think I'll start with the Postal Inspector. Hey, I'm stumbling through this attempt. If there is actual knowledge out there, I'm open to suggestions.
The pursuit of Mr. Hardy is a waste of time.
The money was wired. I doubt Mr. Hardy is even in Kansas.
Never wire money to a stranger. It's as simple as that.
There is nothing new about this type of scam. In my opinion, it's not worth discussing.
But, in the spirit of beating a dead horse regarding this particular incident, read on for further entertainment culled from the Google machine:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/glenn-hardy/kansas-city-kansas-66012/glenn-hardy-a ka-karren-hardy-aka-gnhard7-western-union-moneygram-theft-kansas-city-kansas-110 5612
Looks like this guy has been successful at it for a while. I passed all this info back to Ben. Thanks to all. I'll never figure out how some of you guys can dig up so much info from the internet!
PayPal is the best. Their security is tops. I use for inbound and outbound transactions.
Sadly, at least for now, I think Erik J is right.
Whether from the top down. Or from the bottom up. SOCIETY needs to make a few decisions. Topping that list; whether or not crime and corruption are going to be allowed as a career choice. No society can endure long and healthy if lying and cheating are rewarded without fear of any punishment.
The fact is, the dead horse has been beaten. Western Union does NOT want to get involved in any sort of crime prevention. Maybe they have made their choice? Maybe they make a little too much from illegal money transfers? I do not know. If they want to change my opinion of them, they need to start requiring traceable ID to collect money. I am sorry. I don't like some of the places requiring ID all the time takes us. However, the real world we live in makes some use of it necessary. Unfortunately, I have heard of a few too many people being taken through Western Union.
If I can, as a part of the hobby web, help anyone here with something in my area? Let me know. Give me a call. I wonder if we can set something up where better contact information could be available to those of us that are legitimately in the hobby, but maybe a little secure from scammers? Otherwise, I pretty much wouldn't care if all the model T owners that frequent this site had my phone number. (Trusting you to be reasonable)
Drive carefully, and enjoy the New Year! W2
Hardy responded to an ad I had placed on our web site and a Google street search showed his address was a vacant lot. I did not send him any money for the item I wanted, nor did I have any further contact with him.
Latest scam on my end is a Notice to Appear on some lawsuit ---the "Courts" are sometimes in New York (no town or Court number) or other states ---same no info. They want me to click on the "Court" papers on the bottom of the "Notice". They never give up.
Have to respectfully disagree with Erik. It's always worth talking about scams and scammers. That's how you keep them and their methods exposed. Even if I have heard about the scam a few times doesn't mean the next person has, ie Mike.
Mike, years ago, I sent a check to a guy in Texas for something I bought on eBay. I never received the product after several emails and even messages left at the number they had supplied to eBay.
It wasn't for a lot of money but like most people, I don't take well to getting ripped off. So I emailed the county sheriff down there with my tale of woe and asked him if he or anyone who worked for him could take a minute and knock on this guy's door.
Two days later I had my product in hand - and it was shipped Fed-X next day air.
The whole point of that story was to illustrate that you have nothing to lose by calling the law in the town or area where the scammer may be. You never know.
Thanks for the encouragement! I hate seeing anyone get ripped off, especially a trusting old guy like Ben. I sent the following to the Merriam, KS police dept--it can't hurt.
You have a con-man/thief apparently operating in your area. He continues to prey on unsuspecting people--many are elderly. They advertise for a part/item they want to buy and he contacts them and says he has it and wants payment via Western Union. They send money, then nothing. The one thing all these have in common is that they all have a Merriam address that is an auto related location like AutoZone or Hyundi and he always uses the same last name. He must be in your town because he knows the local addresses to give the people he scams. The attached link from the Model T For Club of America discussion Forum has additional links to several occurrences attempted by the same person.
I don';t know what you can do, but, at least be aware that this crook is operating in your town, thinking he has a fool proof scam going on. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/410944.html?1388278605
I won an auction on ebay for a Model T engine stand costing
over $150.00. Never got it. A whole lot of excuses for not sending the stand until the time limit had expires with ebay. At the time, I was in Indiana and the stand was in California.
Never thought about contacting the law in that area.Never did get the stand or my money.
If your accepting cash for payment, hold the bills up to the light and look for the embedded serial number strip. Its not foolproof, but works about 98% of the time. Also get picture id.
When you consider how infrequently someone trys to buy a t with counterfeit, it reduces your chances of getting ripped off to near 0 for a given transaction. And I think someone passing bad bills (knowingly) would rather call the deal off than give you picture id.
I agree with you, Bud. Additionally, ask to take a picture of the buyer with the car (or parts) before accepting cash.
I prefer (read demand) cash. I also have wifey at home to run it up to the bank which is a couple of blocks away. Have done this a number of times and when she returns and all's OK I stop pointing out all the stuff I've done and get to loading up the car. Coffee's a good time killer too. On the flip side, when looking at a coupe in town a few years back, the owner had me meet him at a diner to look me over I suppose then we drove to his house. Craigslist makes people cautious. If you truly want to be contacted by e-mail only do the following: Good pictures & description, correct (or close) location and correct e-mail address. Scramble all other required info. ie: misspell your last name. Jumble your address and phone #. A scammer won't be able to get your phone off the web with wrong info. It's was done to me a while back. Got calls because a guy got my # from the web on a contact by e-mail only ad using too much correct info on the ad. A real wake up call.