My brother and I are selling one of our Dads prized possessions.
He had Muscular Dystrophy, and about 40 some years ago he removed the fenders to have them repainted and didn't get them back on. Motor cranks over, but hasn't been ran.
Needs windshield glass.
Open to Serious Offers.
sent you a pm
The fenders and windshield frames are in the house.
As far as I know the car is complete, and as close to Original as one can get.
My Dad was a real stickler when it came to this car.
Up until he couldn't get around anymore to take care of it.
My brother and I weren't even allowed in the shed where it was as kids.
I know that he drove it in several Galion Parades, but I was only a couple years old, when this stopped.
Didn't want it damaged I imagine.
The car was pristine when I was a kid.
Now, it is filthy.
Picture to soon follow.
Could you possibly send some pictures of the car?
I think it needs a good home in Maine!
I don't know Gordon...I like Maine a lot, but I think it may be happier moving 45 miles north to Monroeville, Ohio!
Any engine pictures?
'13 Tourings were noted for having weak lower body sills because of the doors going all the way down to the splash aprons. This weakness in the lower body sills often caused the weight of the back seat to break the sills below the rear doors. Ford came out with a metal reinforcing bracket that went over the sill and under the rear doors to remedy this.
In the last two pictures shown above, it looks like this car may have those brackets, but it's hard to tell. It would really help to have better pictures of this area, especially with the doors open.
Keith, I'm sure those are the brackets that I'm a-looking at! I'd be curious more than anything about the engine...my money is on it still having two piece valves and iron pistons.
Car has a Clean Title
Tim, I agree. I wouldn't be a bit surprised that it still has 2 piece valves and cast iron pistons.
I see it has a speedometer also & I wonder what mileage it on it.
Mileage is 4548
Jim, do you have the engine number, its found here above the water inlet in the yellow circle.
Also is there a brass tag above the foot of the steering column on the dash, and whats its number too?
First of all, this looks like a great car!
On the original engine topic, I'm having the engine from my '14 touring rebuilt now and it had 2 piece valves, .000 iron pistons, and plenty of bearing shims left. After magnafluxing, the crank showed a weird crack running lengthwise, unlike the typical 2 piece crankshaft crosswise cracks, but I'm glad that I had the opportunity to replace it before it damaged anything else.
Having problems uploading photos here.
Would someone tell me how to delete some of them
Don't worry about deleting them, having a few duplicate photos in the thread is no big deal.
Be aware that the file size of each photo must be below 250K in order to be posted on the forum.
If there is a limit on the number of photos that can be loaded into a single forum entry, it is very large.
Don't worry if some (or many) of your photos don't initially show up in your post preview, if they are under the file size limit, they will show up in the final post.
Appears your doing fine Jim with the pictures. Once you load them and post them it's tuff to go back and edit and I don't think you can at all if someone post right after you do on the same thread
Before they get lost, please get the hood hooks together that are sitting on the engine pan under the horn, and look for any other loose hardware that was set down nearby. I think whoever buys this beautiful car will appreciate it...
If you really want to go back and delete some photos from earlier posts, go to your profile, a list of recent posts will show up. If the post has a pencil in one of the little boxes to the left, it is still editable. To delete a photo, remove the text line with "popjeg" in it, that should delete the photo.
Wow! The mileage shows only 4,548 miles! If this is correct, that is VERY low miles and really adds to the car's value.
A bath would make it a lot more marketable, imho.
Great images - just what someone wants to see in a car that was stored for years.
I would not attempt to dust - clean - brighten a d@mn thing - it looks great just the way it is ...
August 12, 1913
Did I miss it somewhere in the thread? What is the asking price?
The OP's first post says:
"Open to Serious Offers."
As Ted said above, a bath would make this car more marketable. That said, I'm afraid a "bath" would show that a lot of the "dirt" won't wash off and is actually rust & until the car is examined, the truth won't be known.
It appears interest is waning.
It's only been 2 days. Neat car. You might think about coming up with at least a starting to dicker price. Right now people that might be interested might be scared off because of no price. They have no idea at what price point you might be thinking it is. Check Ebay, advance search, see what similar cars have sold for and remember a complete running car is going to be worth more even if it's in barn fresh state like this one.
Throw out a buy it now price and see what happens.
I will get it started for you maybe this will help . $6500.00 cash
One of the things I have always hated to do in this hobby, is to tell people what I think their car is worth. Especially if that car was one of "dads prized possessions"
Another thing I have seen way too many times, is people trying/needing to sell such a car, operating under the influence of some really bad advice or information. One sometimes clue to this, is offering a car for sale, with no price range given.
The fact is, that most of the value in most of our antique cars is historic and/or intrinsic. While some antique/collector cars appeal to certain people that have more money than they can ever spend? And those cars get bid up higher and higher, above the threshold of six figures and on into the millions of dollars? That is not the case with most antique cars, and certainly not our beloved model Ts.
I, and many other model T people sadly cannot buy any of the cars they want at most given times. The cars, as a result, often do not bring as much as we often think they should. And many of us (including especially me) cannot or will not begin making offers because we don't want to find ourselves in a position of "not quite able to make it happen".
This car? I hate to say it, is a bad one. It is not an unmolested untouched original with "great patina". It has been restored before, probably from a solid nice original that would be worth more today if it had been preserved as an original instead of being cosmetically restored. It is in that middle ground. Not original enough for one group. Not nice enough (as is) for others.
I think, that with a little easy work? And a lot of detailing. It could be a very nice car and wonderful to drive and use as a model T should be. A good clean up and get it running well enough to drive around the block, would help a lot. Much more than that? Would cost you more than it would add to the salable value.
I wish I could be able to come up with the money. If it were to sell for a fair price, I would love to be interested.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
You see the link to the '12 touring now on EBay with a bid of just over 18 that has lots of issues but certainly nice looking.
I always hate to see ads with no asking price. Lots here are interested and maybe even buyers had they known about the price. Myself, I'm always reluctant to offer a price because I don't want to hurt a sellers feelings even before the negotiations start.
Wish both these cars were closer to the left Coast.
Okay, Folks, here's the deal.
It may or may not be 100%. It is what it is.
As stated my Dad had Muscular Distrophy. I'm really not sure what you expect from someone who could barely walk most of their life. He did the best he could. There are Model T guy's in this area. One was Carl Herndon, now deceased. Another is Rick H., still living. Whom appraised the car at $15,000.00 SITE UNSEEN because he knew my Dad, and knew the car. I wasn't going to do this because it's between the Buyer and the Seller, But, since you all want to squawk, I wanted to see it go for $12,000.00. Right now High Offer is $10,000.00 I told all of you, " Make A Serious Offer." We all want something for nothing. Would you sell your 1913 Model T Touring for $5,000.00?
I think NOT.
The car doesn't leave the property for anything less than $15,000.00 CASH, No Checks, No Money Orders. CASH ONLY. I am going to give it one more day here, after that, I'm going elsewhere.
Now there's a marketing approach I've never considered when selling a car. I'll bet people will be beating down your door now.
Tell that to the complainers because I didn't put a price on it. I finally do, and Now I've got you to contend with.
You want to shoot off, why don't you make an offer.
Other than that, keep your opinions to yourself.
As a frame of reference, here is what 15K bought me 4 years ago. There have been many other good deals like this over the last year. 1913 Model T's are NOT rare. The buyer only has to exhibit modest patience and they'll find a decent deal. I'm not trying to beat up on you, but your car is pretty rough. In all honesty, I would take the 10K offer. It's fair to both you and the buyer.
I've seen all I need to. Wouldn't want it if it were free. Good luck with your sale.
What Wayne said was the absolute truth. As a buyer it always surprises me of how the seller envisions his car. As this car sits 6500$ is not unreasonable. Way to many unknowns, you may get lucky and there is a Jewel of a car under 40 years of neglect or this car has been a hotel for roadents for many years. Its a total gamble. If I were to sell this car it would be washed detailed and serviced to have the best chance of getting that high dollar mark.
When a presentable nice car that you can drive on a tour tomorrow can be had for less than 20 grand, what can you expect from this sale? If you can get someone to give you 10 grand without ever laying a hand on it, that's a gift. Take the money and run.
Beyond that it's a rough road finding that special person who will take that gamble.
Good, Because I wouldn't give it to you Mr. Walter Higgins. I'd send it to the scrap yard first. You people on this site are like a bunch of old cackling hens sitting around in a circle squawking at one another. Several complain because of no price. So I put a price on it with my conditions of cash, because I don't want ripped off with a cancelled check, then someone else squawks. Three people want it for $5,000, another tells me it's worth $16,000.00 the way it sits. Hens
I have no issue with the car and hope it finds a good home. Looks like an interesting project.
Ok folks lets calm down a bit and let cooler heads prevail. Any of us including me could have emailed Jim and asked or asked for a number to call him to discuss the car. Jim of course wants to get as much as he can for the car to provide for family. Who wouldn't want the same. Jim really doesn't have a solid idea of the worth with the exception of the emotional price and recommendation of people that hadn't seen the car but knew his father. I encourage both seller and potential buyers to step back take a deep breath and start again. 10-12 is not a bad price. 16- to infinity is a stretch, somewhere in the middle is common ground. I will apologize in advance if I have offended anyone on this. I just wish we could be more than this. Best to all John
Thank You John.
I really meant no offense to anyone.
It just seems that no matter what I did, people weren't happy. I'm not an unreasonable person. I just want a fair price. Will it bring $15,000 the way it sits? I doubt it, I'm not stupid. I wouldn't pay that. But, I do think $12,000 is a fair price. Do you have any idea how many people I've had to deal with since yesterday? Wanting to come and get it for $5,000. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I've been around antiques all my life. Is ANYBODY willing to go $12,000 CASH out there, anywhere?
Just put it on EBay no reserve and let the market decide what it is worth, end of story.
Jim- Seems like 12,000.00 is a very fair price for what appears to be a mostly correct 1913 touring car. Anyone trying to buy it for 5,000.00 is only trying to help themselves. The nature of the forum is that everyone is always interested and tries to be a "big buyer", but when confronted with a selling price that is less than a steal, they run like scared chickens or badmouth the item. You have a good car and at some point it will find its way to an appreciative new owner. Some of the other classified forums like HCCA, Ford Barn, etc do not allow comments on the classified section, and, I think this is a good thing. I would recommend advertising the car on www.hcca.org or www.prewarcar.com. It will sell quickly there at your price.
John : you just showed that "hot coffee " makes your brain work ! And thank you for the
good words in behalf of Jim .
Jim : it seems like the model t market is one day up, one day down . I think ... anyday $ 10k for the car in the shape that you see is fair. $ 12k is the rite ....and above is .... above .
Jim, the people on this forum are some of the most knowledgeable and fair minded people you will ever find. My best advise is to roll it out into the sunlight, and take lots more pics with all the parts you have, and you will certainly get more interest and offers. Best of luck to you.
Thank You to all for the positive words.
High Offer stands at $12,250.00
I paid $12 K for this '14 several years ago - looked like this & had been under a cover since 1976 - I'm the 3rd owner.
There are some thrifty folks here but all hobbies have those ! It appears to be a nice Model T but "condition" is paramount as Mike eluded to above. Good luck with your sale.
Interesting thrad. I have no dog in this fight and am a newbie, so my comments are just thread related, not car related. Read at your own risk.
Most other forums that I frequent do not allow "auction" type listings in the classifieds. You must state a price in the listing. Of course, everything is negotiable, but at least threr is a frame of reference.
To obtain telephone offers and then post the offers looking for higher offers, sounds like an on line auction to me. Is there a really a firm offer of $12,250? If I am that gentleman or lady that made that offer and my seller was shopping the offer around for a higher one, I think I would withdraw it pretty quickly.
Just an interesting marketing lesson going on here.
Good luck to all.
ps., went to an estate sale the other day whre the sller had a $3,500 asking price on a T rolling chassis. The price was so far out of line that I was reluctant to make an offer as I felt it would cause hard feelings and really shut down the discussions. I spent a lot of time educating the seller of what the market had said in the past about this chassis and made an $800 offer that was accepted. But if I hadn't donw my homework and made my case with proven facts, he would still be sitting on the parts. Some feel that throwing a high number on something will not hurt, the buyer can always make an offer, but if that number is "I don't want to sell it" high, it may shut the whole pricess down. Mike and Frank 101.
Again, just an interesting marketing lesson here.
I am allowed to shop that offer around.
I am also allowed to try and get the highest price for the car that I can.
I'm not going to just give it away, I'd sooner let it rust into the shed floor. Don't worry, I've just about had my fill of the Negativity of some of the people on this site. Soon I am going to see about deleting this ad, and you all will never know what has happened to this car.
Thank You to ALL of the Positive people who have tried to help during this pain in the ass procedure.
And this will be my FINAL Post.
What I am going to do is clean the car, reassemble the car, get the car running, and post it elsewhere for $18,000.00 or Best Offer.
I'm DONE playing the games here.
Now that is a VERY good plan Jim.
And while you are re-assembling the car, watch this one for ideas.
wow, what a tool.
Marketing lesson just got more interesting.
I think the chapter in my Marketing 101 text book that covers this latest technique is called "I'm taking my ball and going home" strategy.
Let's see if it works.
Jim, if you are still lurking, I did not mean to imply that you were violating forum rules or taking away your civil liberties. It's a free country, you can sell it for what and how you want. Just observing from the sidelines here.
As Arte Johnson used to say, "Veeeeeery Interesting?
Sound of door slamming:
In my world, 10 K is a fair price. 12.5 is a good deal for the seller. lots of work to be done on this car, and a lot of mechanical unknowns. Jay, if you would chill a bit im sure you can sell it on this site. There are lots of good people here, someone will offer a fair price. Its going to take you considerable time and work to get it cleaned up running, leave it for the buyer to do.
I really do hope you have good luck with your sale. Seems to me you came here looking for a quick sale and when it didn't happen you got maybe a little upset. One of the postings above you alluded to the lack of interest or slowing, it was just a little over 24 hours after your first post listing the car. Some of the other web sites DO require a price in the ad. May I point out that a lot of the guys here watch those other sites as well and may have been trying to be helpful and would be happy to offer suggestions and answer questions to help get the car running again.
Let me be the first. This is a good write up on how to take a T out of mothballs;
From his posts here I'd be sort of reluctant to do business with the seemingly hot head. I didn't think anyone here was being disrespectful. It's called negotiation.
Got to question someone that threatens to leave it rust in the ground?
Good Luck to him and I hope someone gets the car and is happy.
I wonder if the guy was just on a fishing trip, maybe he had an offer and was just trying to see if it was good. The whole thing seems a little off as he seemed to be in such a big rush considering how long some T's even of that vintage/condition take to sell.
I get the feeling that if he tried to sell something in the future at a very good price this thread would turn away a fair number of potential buyers.
Here is the e mail I got from him the other day, I do not trust this guy, it says him and his brother are trying to sell the car
he e mailed me this
Unfortunately my phone is out of minutes.
I am on unemployment, and just didn't see the need to recharge it.
I wish I had now.
I will do my best here to answer any questions you may have.
The car will be shown on the site at least until some of the interest
in it dies down.
You still have plenty of time.
Thank You so much for your interest.
I hear from a few of people that he would not let anyone come and look at it, Bob
When I sold residential real estate, I would advise my sellers to make the house presentable, but to allow the purchase price to reflect the cost of new carpet, appliances, paint, etc., rather than have the sellers make the repairs themselves and price the home high. In many cases, the "improvements" the seller makes are just going to get torn out and redone to the new owners taste and style. So nothing is gained.
I'd be reluctant to pay a preimium price for a vehicle "restored" by someone who hasn't touched it in 40 years and wasn't even allowed in the same building with it.
Price it to sell and let the new owner make it his own.
Thus endeth the lesson.
I hope this thread remains.
This is a good lesson on how NOT to sell a car.
This is also a good example of how the Model T Community can contribute in an overall positive way.
Hey folks, there is more to this story. I will not share it but this is a strong case of emotion & family being involved, lack of knowledge of real worth, not wanting to be taken advantage of and a need to get this part of life in the rear view mirror. Some of the response from the seller is/was fueled buy us trying to really get a good deal (I'm being generous) the seller being unexpectedly inundate with not enough knowledge to make a fair and good decision. Torn between the "what should I do" and "I don't know what to do" and cascading to a short fuse. Many of us have items that if we don't get what we want for it, we'd let Mother Nature reabsorb it. I've said and heard others say it too. This is just a thread that needs to behind us also.
We do not know what his back story is other then what he told us. There were several what looked to be good fair offers made for what was shown along with a few examples of what some are selling for, some were just testing the water. There were other ways to approach what he was looking for Re a value. A simple way could have to come on here and explaining the situation and ask for help finding a value.
Thanks John Tannehill, you wrote what I thought was the situation. Emotion, frustration and a close to a chapter of his fathers life. Obviously this is something his father was very proud of but due to limitations could not enjoy as much as he wanted to.
Jim will need to sort this out (maybe other family members are involved and he is an executor getting pressure and just wants it over). If Jim is still reading this...sometimes it is best to just finish the job and be done with it, if you take the 10,000, 12,500 or whatever I am sure that is way more than your father spent 40 years ago. Get this splinter out and move on. You can take the money and reinvest in the family somehow...college funds for grandchildren? Care for mom? Take a vacation or remodel something and tell dad "thanks".
Seen this too many times, peace to you and your family Jim.
I think $11-14K was this car's value.
James, you got car at an amazing price for. One could easily wait 20 years for such a deal on a 13...you were lucky.
Quality restoration correct 13s do sell for $20-30K at auction.
Asking price for a two piece driveshaft I saw at Chickasaw saw $800. Headlights are worth over a thousand $, etc.
13 is not rare but not a dime a dozen either. If this car had all the correct 13 pieces then $12500 was fair price.
Everybody says '13s are not so rare, yet I believe in past posts the consensus was that about 1% of T's still exist. At around 127,000 '13 Tourings produced that means there's only 1270 left on earth. In the 48 continental states alone, that would be 26 '13 Tourings per state! There's two that I know of within 5 miles of me, including mine, in Ohio. Take in other countries that surely have some, and well, I think they ARE pretty rare. Especially decent ones. Just my 2 cents, adjusted for inflation.
What was the serial number on the engine? August 7 13 casting date would make for a very late 1913. A little TLC could make a nice car.
Ken in Texas
Tim... Just for kicks, compare your numbers to the production of the Maxwell. Or the EMF, or Overland.... The 1911 AB Maxwell was one of the more common 2 cylinder cars. And they only made about 5,000 of those. If you dig into the registry, there are about 50 of them reported - which, agrees with the 1% theory.
However, you can buy a decent 1911 AB for "close" to the same money you'd spend on a nicely restored 1913 Model T Touring. 20K or so. And according to your numbers above, while there are an estimated 26 1913's per state, there is only 1 AB Maxwell per the same region.
So comparatively speaking, there is nothing really all rare about a 1913 Ford Touring.
Well, that was fun. What a nice man.
Did anyone actually get to see the car in person?
Jim..can't argue that one! I still think they're (fairly) rare...lol