Wanted - Moore transmission

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Model T Ford Forum: Classifieds: Wanted - Moore transmission
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 - 03:23 am:

Looking for a Moore transmission that's complete and in good condition for a T (not sure if the TT model will fit a T) and that comes with the correct shifter. Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 - 12:29 pm:

TT model will not fit a T car. Good luck, the Moore's are hard to find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 - 01:44 pm:

Thanks for the info Marvin. Yes rare but I'm sure someone here has one sitting in their barn waiting for a project that's never going to happen :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Morsher on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 - 05:41 pm:

I think mark Freimiller ( model t haven ) has one with the shifter . Those are harder to find than the trans. Good luck, Constantine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Wednesday, May 03, 2017 - 06:46 pm:

Thanks Tim. He does has one it seems, but it's for a TT not T:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-TT-Ford-Moore-3-Speed-Transmission-MT-928-/4013140 63460?

Anyone have one for T?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 06:34 pm:

Anyone know if the Moore TT shifter works with Moore T unit?

Still loooking...anyone have any bits and pieces from a Moore?

C'mon guys; I need Moore!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 06:45 pm:

Be sure you are speaking of the same transmission as there are 2 and 3 speed Moore transmissions as well as car and truck. I suspect that the gearboxes between car and truck (and the front shifters) are alike but the torque tube adaptors are different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 07:01 pm:

Layden, okay thanks.

(Message edited by m2m on May 04, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 07:24 pm:

Okay...did some checking.

I know in Mark Freimiller's Ebay ad above it's says it's a 3 speed but according to two different period ads I've just looked at, Moore aux. trans., both the T and TT version are 2 speed (Ford and Moore) plus a neutral. Both came in either overdrive or underdrive. No mention of a Moore that has both underdrive and overdrive. Am I missing something? Are people calling neutral the 3rd speed?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 09:29 pm:

Moore and Rocky Mountain are I believe the same transmission just different marketing names or company sellout/reorganization.
See this old MTfCA thread:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/78146.html?1231914641


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 10:05 pm:

Constantine: the Moore I have in my 1914 Roadster has a low and high range. It has a shifter inside the body in the middle. You push in lightly on the clutch (low pedal) and it shifts into gear. Forward for the low range, back for the high range. The middle is neutral. the driveline is not cut or shortened, but the transmission sits in the back at the rear axle. The driveline goes through the Moore. It was made in 1919. Jay in California has a tremendous thread from a few years back with photos and advertisements about the Moore. If you need photos let me know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 10:23 pm:

Search Moore Transmission MTFCA. Find the thread from the Forum dated May 6, 2010. A treasure of information on the Moore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 11:55 pm:

Thanks for your replies guys. I've consulted the Aux. Tranny "Bible" for a definitive answer.

The Moore was made in both LA and Conersville, IN

Rocky Mountain purchased the LA branch of Moore in 1922. In 1923 Rocky Mountain started making a new 3 speed without a neutral; a very different tranny to the Moore.

BUT in Conersville, IN, which was not purchased by Rocky Mountain, they continued to make a copy of the TT Moore under the "Lincoln" brand.

Both the TT and T Moore tranny are two speed, either under or overdrive. There's no 3 speed.

Enough history; I want Moore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 12:02 am:

and my Benjamins are eagerly waiting for their new custodian.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 01:12 am:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-Ford-Model-T-Moore-Transmission-Brochure-Truck-or-C ar-7-x-10-Folded-Orig-/112285952225?hash=item1a24c3a8e1:g:mYEAAOSwo4pYjrta


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 03:23 am:

Thanks Stan, that's one of the ads I was referring to further up.

I wonder why Moore didn't sell nearly as well as the Ruckstell? Certainly seems easier to fit a Moore to car. Was it price?

Marvin, I might have to make you an offer on your Moore fitted 14 if I cannot find one...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 05:10 am:

Constantine, I love the Moore two speed in my roadster buckboard. The driveshaft does need to be shortened, as does the torque tube, to fit it to the rear axle.

The gears are in constant mesh, changes being made by a sliding dog of massive proportions. I can sellect a positive neutral, and it is held by a special position on the shifter.

The only thing I had to do was make a new layshaft and fit two new bearings, like those Hyatts in the rear axle.

Mine is an underdrive. Some say it can be fitted backwards to be an overdrive, but as the ratio is roughly half, reversing it would be double, too much for a T to push.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 07:41 am:

This lightweight speedster has a Moore transmission and a Ruckstell, standard rear end. The Moore is/was an underdrive where I reversed the gears to make it an overdrive...roughly 2:1. Works great with a Ruckstell on a light car. Picture is of the car in the 1971 Santa Clara Valley Endurance Run.
Speedster 1971


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 09:38 am:

Here's the link to the Accessory of the Day post on the Moore Transmission from May 2010.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/139700.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 05:17 pm:

Thanks Allan and John, I'm ready to convert to Moore-ism but I need the actual tranny to be a true believer.

No Moore out there?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duane Epper on Saturday, May 06, 2017 - 12:14 pm:

I have this one that I was going to use for a speedster but do not need it anymore.It needs some work on the bushings and the sliders have wear but the gears all look good.Has all the parts needed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Sunday, May 07, 2017 - 02:00 am:

Here's a photo Burger posted in 2015. Shows the "Lincoln" (re-branded TT Moore) made in Conersville, IN which I discussed above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Sunday, May 07, 2017 - 02:09 am:

Hmmm...or maybe not exactly. Case looks very different to a TT Moore.

Burger found a quote saying:

"(Moore also created the Improved Moore Transmission, later known
as the Lincoln Utility Transmission, which doubled the pulling power
of Ford's Model T trucks ..."

from:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/550895.html?1434867316

(Message edited by m2m on May 07, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duane Epper on Sunday, May 07, 2017 - 09:52 am:

The transmission has been sold. Thank you MTFCA. Also here are some diagrams


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duane Epper on Sunday, May 07, 2017 - 09:53 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Monday, May 08, 2017 - 06:23 am:

Constantine, it looks like you were too slow on the One posted. There's the quick and the dead!

I forgot to mention that my roadster buckboard has a 3:1 diff gearset, which works well in conjunction with the Moore underdrive. But there is a trick to be able to assemble the Moore to the rear axle with the 3:1 gears. I could be persuaded to reveal this, given the right encouragement.

John's reversal of the gears to give a 2:1 ratio is a little misleading. The actual gearbox is reversed, and the input and output ends which bolt up to the casing are the bits swapped from one end to the other. With a 2:1 final drive, a Ruckstell would be almost essential to give a reduction that a T motor is capable of pushing.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 08, 2017 - 10:39 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 03:53 am:

More Moore :

https://books.google.com/books?id=qDjnAAAAMAAJ&dq=moore%20ford%20transmission&pg =PA464#v=onepage&q&f=true


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 05:46 pm:

Wow! A lot of good information laid out here. It should maybe be transferred to the regular forum before it times out?
I have had and/or worked with a few Moore transmissions years ago. I like them. As far as I have noticed, they all appear to be one model each, one for cars, one for trucks. Almost nothing is interchangeable between the two.
The quick way to spot the two apart, is that the car version has a removable top, with the shifting fork and sliding rod inside it. The car version also has a smaller flange to attach the input and output ends onto the center housing. The input and output flanges have a simple four bolt pattern.
The TT truck version has the shifting fork mechanism made into the full center casing (no removable top). The input and output pieces are much larger and have a six bolt pattern.
To complicate all this. Several other makers of similar transmissions (including Rocky Mountain and Universal) made similar designs that did not fit easily into the simple Moore descriptions. That simple how-to-tell-them-apart only works for the Moore transmissions themselves. Some of the others have removable tops on the TT version, and six bolt patterns on the car version.
With the Moore, the entire center housing is turned around to switch the unit between over/direct or under/direct The lower gears only fit one way into the housing). (Gee John McG, I make that sound so easy!) The similar Universal model, the housing only installs one way (the housing is made so that the gears can be installed either direction). But the gears inside can be assembled for either configuration. And the TT model has a removable top with the shifting fork (unlike the Moore TT model).

Somewhere, I may still have some TT Moore pieces, but they were in pretty bad shape over forty years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 12:52 pm:

Wayne, Yes maybe admin should move this to 2017 Forum...how can we make that happen?

What exactly do you mean the TT Moore has "no removable top"? Top section looks the same to me as T version.

TT:



T:



The interesting thing about the Moore is that they were made in two different factories. Both factories put out there own ads. Does anyone have a Moore with a case marked as "Made in Connersville, IN"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Matthiesen on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 03:47 pm:

Constantine: Over the years I have collected Moore parts to complete a Model T car, two to one under drive two speed Moore, like the factory photo above with the 1919 dates but from the Los Angeles factory. As your picture shows, the two speed TT truck Moore and T car Moore uses the same main case, gears and counter shaft parts. The input connection and output connection is different for the truck and car as also can be seen in the photos. You will have many useable parts from your TT Moore and only need input shaft, which is a modified stock T drive shaft and output shaft, output plate and input casting to make it a T car Moore. I may have enough good parts to build another T car Moore but I am not sure. PM me for email info and what parts you need.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 04:00 pm:

Constantine, There appears to have been two types of car Moore transmissions. The cut-away you and Duane E showed clearly is a car version (pinion gear, four bolt flanges, etc) but dos not have the removable top. I had a Moore many years ago that I am certain had a removable top piece. (It went with a car I sold about 20 years ago.) The removable top made assembly much easier.
I know the TT truck rusty mess parts I have did not have a removable top.
Maybe that had something to do with which factory made them? Maybe not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 05:12 pm:

Wayne, the "Lincoln" (an improved and re-branded the TT Moore) shown further up the page, does seem to have a removable top; would this be what you're thinking of?

(Message edited by m2m on May 22, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 05:17 pm:

I have a Lincoln for the TT and it has the removable top. It is BIG and HEAVY. I'll post pics later this week if there is interest. J


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 05:37 pm:

The correct name for TT Lincoln tranny seems to have been:

Lincoln Utili-TT Transmission

It was made by same company that made Moores in Conersville, IN, but company was renamed "Lincoln Manufacturing Company" who were "Also Makers of LINCOLN BRAKING DEVICES for Ford Cars and Trucks", see:

https://books.google.com/books?id=kt_NAAAAMAAJ&q=Lincoln+Utili-TT+Transmission+i ndiana&dq=Lincoln+Utili-TT+Transmission+indiana&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwinj9CsuITU AhXF3YMKHRZBAcYQ6AEIKDAB

Perhaps a few of these new trannies came out under the "Moore" brand?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 05:53 pm:

Constantine, I don't recall that I have ever actually seen a Lincoln for Ford transmission. I have heard of them for years. Probably walked by a couple at swap meets and missed them, but I usually look at all the drive-line mount accessory transmissions for Ts and TTs. I need to try to find some pictures.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 07:31 pm:

Connersville, IN is not far from the Homecoming in Richmond. Perhaps someone could try driving around town all day in their T for hope of being spotted by some old guy who has box after box of NOS Moore parts sitting in his barn?

(Message edited by m2m on May 22, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 07:37 pm:

Moore, John C.

1869 - 1951

Mechanic and Auto Engineer. John C. Moore was born in 1869 at Oxford, near Georgetown, Kentucky. He was a self-educated mechanic, who became a pioneer automotive engineer and inventor. During the 1890s, the bicycle had developed into the later craze and Moore operated a bicycle repair shop in Georgetown. In 1893, he came in second in a Winchester to Lexington bicycle race. He completed the twenty-mile course, over muddy roads, in fifty-eight minutes and thirty-two seconds.
By 1899, he began experimenting with the motor car and built the first car in Georgetown. He assembled his automobile from an old carriage, with a gasoline engine attached. When he test-drove his invention out on the streets of Georgetown, people considered him “crazy” for wasting time on a “horseless carriage.” Over the next few years, he continued to tinker with designs and build a second automobile in 1901. In 1907, he relocated to Lexington to work for the Blue Grass Automobile Company. This company sold and repaired automobiles for Dayton Motor Car Company, Dayton, Ohio, makers of the Stoddard – Dayton Motor Car.

In 1908, he built a prototype motor car from assembled parts, which evolved the next year into the Lexington Motor Car. Based upon this design, Kinzea Stone and others invested in the idea of manufacturing automobiles in Lexington.

He became the Superintendent of the Lexington Motor Car Company in 1908 and oversaw the vehicle assembly at the plant. He participated in both the 1909 and 1910 Glidden Tours. In 1910, he relocated with the company to Connersville, Indiana, and became the company’s Chief Engineer.

In 1911, Moore refined a multiple exhaust system that raised the horsepower by a reported thirty (30%). Each cylinder had a separate exhaust, channeled into dual mufflers. In 1915, he designed the Lexington Minute Man Six and Thoroughbred Six Models. In 1917, Moore put together a new frame, with a rigid box cross-section, that eliminated the problem of jammed doors caused by frame flexing. This car also had an emergency brake affixed to the drive shaft. He continued inventing improvements to the Lexington that kept the company ahead of its competition.

He continued to serve as Chief Engineer for the company until the reorganization of the company in 1923. He also designed the Improved Moore Transmission in the 1920s for the Tractor-Train Company, which increased the traction power of Ford Trucks. He died in Connersville during 1951.

Maybe Moore's sons or grandsons are still in town?

(Message edited by m2m on May 22, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 07:45 pm:

Another Moore ad:

https://books.google.com/books?id=BFJJAQAAMAAJ&lpg=RA2-PA550&ots=Us0RG26VO3&dq=t ractor%20train%20company%20Connersville%2C%20IN&pg=RA2-PA550#v=onepage&q=tractor %20train%20company%20Connersville,%20IN&f=false


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 09:04 pm:

Hmmm,

Was it Moore, John C. or Moore, Henry N. the force behind the Moore tranny? Maybe both as a father and son team?

Moore, Henry N. is listed as the inventor on the patent:

https://books.google.com/books?id=7BJLAQAAMAAJ&lpg=PA51&ots=LFUmRiLhcA&dq=henry% 20n.%20moore%20moore%20transmission&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q=henry%20n.%20moore%20moo re%20transmission&f=false


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 12:19 am:

This Victor-Ford transmission looks very similar to the Moore:

https://books.google.com/books?id=InVIAQAAMAAJ&dq=victor%20auxiliary%20transmiss ion&pg=RA5-PA157#v=onepage&q&f=false


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