For Sale: Early 1910 Touring Car #9262, Four Owner, Documented History, Ready to Enjoy

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Model T Ford Forum: Classifieds: For Sale: Early 1910 Touring Car #9262, Four Owner, Documented History, Ready to Enjoy
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 12:57 pm:

This very early 1910 Model T Touring car was assembled on August 17, 1909 and was purchased new by Edward Short of Onsted, Michigan. It was given registration tag number 3993 by the State of Michigan. Mr. Short kept the car until 1919 when it was sold to Victor Billmeyer, also of Onsted, Michigan. When the scrap drives of WWII were taking place, Mr. Billmeyer carefully hid the car in a barn under straw to save it from the scrappers. He kept the car until 1959 when it was sold to Eugene Eldredge of Adrian, Michigan. Mr Eldredge owned the car until 2013 when it was sold the current and fourth owner.
The restoration of this car was completed in about 1970. The restorer was the well-known, Leonard Davis. Davis was one of the foremost restorers of brass era cars in the Detroit area. He worked for many of the premier, early collectors including Donald Gilmore, Burton Upjohn, Dick Teague and the Henry Ford Museum. Davis restored the Henry Ford Museum’s famous early 1909 touring car #839. Eldredge was enamored with the Henry Ford Museum car and had Davis restore this car to resembled #839. After being restored, Eldredge showed the car at The Old Car Festivals during the 1970s and stored it in his museum-like garage. It was hardly driven during Eldredge’s ownership.
This is an extremely correct and proper car. It retains its original open valve engine, one-piece pan, square hole transmission cover, early front and rear end assemblies, steering column, body, brass, etc. etc. etc. At the time of the restoration, the car was fitted with early 1909 style front fenders (without the front “bills”) and the original color was changed from green to red so that it would look like an early 1909.
After purchasing the car in 2013, the current owner serviced the car as needed and has driven it sparingly. The gas tank was replaced but the original one remains with the car. The car starts easily and runs well. It still runs on its original 5 ball Kingston carburetor and the original brass, two-piece timer. It runs on both battery and magneto. When its cold, it usually starts on less than four, gentle, pulls of the crank.
The paint is in excellent overall condition showing hardly any wear and is consistently glossy throughout. The black leather interior looks like new as does the top. The top is fitted with a full set of side curtains. The car has Atwood Castle side lamps and E&J headlamps and tail lamp, which are in excellent condition as are the other brass accessories including the windshield, carbide generator, horn, speedometer, etc. It is hard to believe that this restoration is nearly 50 years old, as it still presents extremely well inside and out, top and bottom. The pedals and brass steering quadrant show only the most minimal amount of wear. None of the chassis components show any type of wear, repair or pitting. The body is tight and solid. This was always a good, well-preserved, original car.
Included with the sale of the car is the original State of Michigan registration tag, copies of the original Ford Motor Company build sheet, original photos of the car prior to restoration, lots receipts and documents from the restoration, etc. Also included is a new set of Rootlieb, late 1909-1910 front fenders (with the “bills”) should the next owner want to replace the existing early 1909 fenders.
This is a great opportunity to purchase a real, early production, 1910 Model T touring car. Unlike most cars, it has not been assembled from parts and has a known, documented four-owner history from new. Proper, early Model Ts rarely come up for sale. This car is ready to show or drive. The car is reasonably priced at 55,000.00. It is located near Detroit, Michigan and has a clear and current title. I have over 120 photos showing virtually every part of this car in detail that I will be glad to send to seriously interested buyers. Please email: motoringiconsAThotmail.com (replace the AT with @) or call 734-730-4274. I DO NOT CHECK PMs.Thank you very much.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 12:59 pm:

For More Photos, please see my ad on the AACA Forum

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/293696-for-sale-early-1910-ford-model-t-touring-car -9262-documented-four-owner-history-and-ready-to-enjoy/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 01:46 pm:

Wowzers


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 02:22 pm:

Impressive car! And a good write-up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 02:52 pm:

Thanks! Here is the build sheet ,, pictures of the car prior to restoration, and a few more pictures. :


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 02:58 pm:

A few more pictures......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 03:20 pm:

Somebody help me here...this car's engine says 9262 on a clearly open-valve block. My '12 Comm. Roadster engine is 90708, and is clearly a closed valve block. What am I missing here?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 03:32 pm:

Your engine is later, the went from open to closed valve around July of '11


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Simmering, Afton, TN on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 03:59 pm:

55988, a touring car, has a closed valve engine cast on 5/12/11.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 04:22 pm:

This car with engine number 9262 was built in August of 1909 and clearly has an open valve engine. Tim, your car, #90708 is about 80,000 numbers and nearly three years later than this car and would certainly have a closed valve engine. Where do you get this is a later, closed valve engine stuff from? I have no idea where the 55988 reference comes from either?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 04:28 pm:

From open to closed valve happened about 46,000 in April 1911. I see nothing here from anybody that doesn't make sense.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Mc Willie on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 06:02 pm:

That is a great looking car with a wonderful history. Nice to see a car that is properly and clearly presented. If I didn't already have a 1910 touring I would consider it. My engine is in the low 11,000 serial number range (I don't remember exactly) and has an open valve block just like this one. Someone painted my car red as well. Red seems to be the color of choice for brass cars that were restored in the 1960s and 1970.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 06:27 pm:

ggz Please show some close ups of the Cowl Lamps especially the Tops. Thank you


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 06:30 pm:

ggz Please show some close ups of the Cowl Lamps especially the Tops. Thank you


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 09:15 pm:

GGZ...oh crap, been too long of a day! For whatever crazy reason, I was somehow reading an "extra digit" in your number! Been in the sun too long...no wonder I thought the engine numbers didn't gybe! Whew! Seems I've been "reading things into" like that lately. Gotta look into it!
Yeh, I'm unaware of the 55988 car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Macleod on Friday, June 02, 2017 - 10:53 pm:

What's not to like?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 12:43 am:

GGZ: Very NICE car, as are all the ones I have seen you post for sale.
A little open vale info. I have two 1911 cars, # 48222 and 50037. Both are open valve engines. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 12:58 am:

Guy, can you post a picture of the horn, speedo drive and if you could tell me how many of the small brass com wire retainers are under the hood former. Best to you, Kim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 09:38 am:

Beautiful!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 10:40 am:

Thanks everyone for the nice comments.

Don- Here are pictures of the sidelamps. Sorry the photos of the tops are not particularly clear but it was hard to get a photo with the reflection. The Castle logo is very clear on both sidelamps. The photos of the car when it was purchased in 1959 show the E and J headlamp and Castle sidelamps combination which is what the car has today. Not sure if it came from the factory that way but it has been that way for a long time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 10:48 am:

Hello Kim- Hope you are doing well.
The speedometer drive is off the car. it is included but I do not believe it is the correct one. I have included pictures of the wheel gear and the drive assembly.

I also do not think it has the correct horn. It appears to be a triple twist, right hand drive horn turned upside down and mounted on the left side. The tube exits through the firewall which I do not believe to be correct.

I have attached a close up of the firewall. Talk to you soon. GZ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 10:54 am:

Another interesting note: After the car was restored, it was pictured in a 1972 issue of Ford Motor Company's "Ford Times." This issue has a feature on Model Ts and The Old Car Festival (RIP!). On the cover, there are some detailed shots of the horn and sidelamps of this car (the headlamp photo is of another T).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 11:00 am:

Thanks Guy, your correct about the horn and the speedo parts, but those parts are easily corrected. Nice car, I always heard Leonard Davis was the go to guy at that time. Good luck on the sale.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 11:41 am:

What is the # on the Cowl Lamps & are they "Castle" or "Atwood-Castle"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 12:22 pm:

Don-When i get a chance, I'll take better photos of the side lamps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 12:26 pm:

Don-From memory, they are Atwood Castle 204, but I would have to double check to be sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 12:30 pm:

Leonard Davis restored a lot of early cars in the midwest. His specialty was 1912 and earlier Fords and Packards. There are quite a few cars around here that still have his restorations-they really hold up well. He was especially well known for his leather upholstery work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 12:43 pm:

On a former thread it was pointed out that it seems that all open valve blocks of that vintage have a long ridge on the lower right hand side. My 1910 block does as all others I have viewed. Another "1909" "1910" T that had a similar engine number turned out to have a 1913 era block altered to open valve. This block as illustrated does not have that ridge. Any comments on this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 04:13 pm:

Hi Darel, just wanted to point out that not all 09-10 blocks had the separation line close to the rail. The one in my 10 does, but the one I am working on does not. The blocks were made pretty close in time too. There are a few other ways to determine if the block is genuine. I also have an early 11 open valve motor that does not have the line.
Just an observation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 05:12 pm:

Thank you for the information. I have had two other blocks in years past. The engine in my 1910 was completely original when I bought the car as a teen ager. I had a "1909" at one time that had a 8xxx serial number. That one I made the T into a right hand drive roadster with some 1911 Torpedo parts... It went to California in about 1975. \The other block was stamped 7426 as I remember. It had the unusual oil opening on the left side. The person who bought that block said it looked as if the was another number under the stamped number. I should have taken some photos of the engine blocks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 06:17 pm:

Did the 1910 T's not have the brass Ford marked boot scrapers on the door sills?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Rosenthal in Cincinnati Oh on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 06:28 pm:

The #204 side lamps shown here were made by The Castle Lamp Co. Were Atwood Castle lamps used for any 1910 production?
Thx,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Saturday, June 03, 2017 - 10:15 pm:

Darel, interesting info. Neither of my 1910 engines have the threaded hole in the block opposite no. 1 cylinder, but a 1910 I had before did have it. All three engine numbers were within a few thousands. I heard 1910 engines in the early 20 thou number range had the hole you speak of. I never knew the 09 engines had them. You mentioned the 09 block may have had another number stamped beneath the 09 number. I wonder if it could have been a 1910 as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Rosenthal in Cincinnati Oh on Monday, June 05, 2017 - 08:55 am:

Are the rear hubs shown the tapered axle style, and if so, are the original axles and hubs to be sold with the car?
Regards,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Monday, June 05, 2017 - 09:30 am:

Scott- At some point, the original rear axles were replaced with the more conventional tapered axles and hubs. We do not have the original non-tapered hubs or axles. For touring purposes, the tapered hubs and axles are safer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Rosenthal in Cincinnati Oh on Monday, June 05, 2017 - 06:15 pm:

Thx ggz. Good luck with your sale.
Regards,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Rosenthal in Cincinnati Oh on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 07:56 am:

Hello ggz:
The Build Sheet shown here describes this as having an Aluminum Wilson-built body....is this correct?
Regards,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 08:44 pm:

Yes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mario Brossard on Wednesday, June 07, 2017 - 09:48 pm:

Awesome car. I'm out of breath. If I have the money I will own this car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Rosenthal in Cincinnati Oh on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 08:49 am:

Hello Mr. Zaninovich:
This body data is quite a find, given the known records related to Wilson. According to Bruce McCaully's Black Book, the Wilson Company did not supply 1910 Touring bodies, and the Wilson 1909 Touring bodies were wooden panel construction only. Does this body display a serial number where this code indicates Wilson, similar to the Beaudette supplied bodies where the body number includes the alpha code "B"? Not trying to challenge you or the seller on this, but if this this is an Aluminum Wilson body, then accepted 1909 and 1910 Touring body data may be either incomplete, or fully inaccurate.
Regards,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ggz on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 10:55 am:

Scott- Having reread your question-and my answer-I did not respond clearly. (On the road and tired, I apologize). It is a wood body. Most of the body wood is original, but there are definitely some replacement pieces that were replaced during the 1970 restoration.The build sheet shows Wilson but the "aluminum" line is not checked off, just the cursive from the letter W in the word Wilson overlaps onto this line (does this make sense??). Some of the original body pieces do have numbers stamped in them.
When Leonard Davis restored the car, he did do a very thin metal skin over some of the wood parts so the paint would properly adhere. This is a typical practice for people that restore wood body cars. The results speak for themselves as there is virtually no cracking in the nearly 50 year old red paint.
Scott, if you are seriously interested in purchasing the car, it would certainly be best if you came to look at it. Cincinnati isn't too far from us! Thanks for your interest.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond-Forest, Va on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 05:43 pm:

A Rip Van Winkle in Red....great looking car!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 06:13 pm:

Gary,

I was present when Kim loaded up the Rip Van Winkle T in Bakersfield.

He hired me to transport an original unrestored Manx Tow'd he bought from the same collection along with another Model T for his friend.

No offense - but this Model T is not on the same level as that Rip Van Winkle T.


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Eastwood on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 10:26 pm:

Guy, regarding the wood body / aluminum body. On this car, I find it interesting that the upholstery appears to be tacked over the outside on a "tack strip" like an aluminum body, instead of down from the top into the edge of the seat like a wood body 09/10. just an observation, Pete


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Macleod on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 10:58 pm:

If I win the Powerball, Guy will be the recipient of my very first phone call. There is nothing about this car I don't like, except that I don't own it.


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