Does anyone have a set of plans or prints for the wood portion of a '20 Center Door. I saw the two sets of prints offered here a few days ago. That made me think about the possibility of a set for a Center Door being out there somewhere.
To date, we have been unable to find a wood kit for this car. One possibility of a reverse engineering to a kit, but no supplier for a kit, as yet.
Still Looking, Thank You,
They are a little on the slow side but at lest has some of the wood.
We have been in contact with them and it was them who said they would consider the reverse engineering project. Haven't heard back from them as yet. I sure would like to work with them. I have seen their work/product and it is high quality all the way.
I would think it would be a fairly easy project as several pieces would be the same as the coupe of that year and tudor/fordor of subsequent years. We'll see.
i have all the wood patterns and have done 6 no way i would ever do it again. ha.ha. charley
Working with what I have, I can sure understand you not wanting to do it again.
Do you have any suggestions or ideas? So far, you're the only positive lead I have.
i have a lot!!!!!!!!!!! we should get together some time. call me 417-394-2788 charley
Mark,thanks for the link to fordwood, looks a great source. I am also in the market for a set of plans, or better still, a complete pre-cut kit , I'm no cabinet maker ha ha ha !
We called Mr. Shaver. A very nice gentleman with a lot of great knowledge and suggestions. The relationship has begun and we'll see how it goes from here. One thing he did warn us of: There are a couple of suppliers NOT worth using. Don't know who those are.
I can say: I've seen Fordwood's product and instructions. Top quality all the way. You will need to sit back and relax as it will be a while before you get your order, but well worth it, for sure.
Sorry to say this but if you are putting together a center door or coupe body wood, you better have above average skills at wood working. This is not a job for the faint of heart! The kits or home made require a "LOT" of fitting.
So you're saying this will be a skill building experience?
Either that our it will kill me, right?
Thanks for the input. Better prepared than caught with your shorts down.
wood kits!!!!! i started doing wood in the 70s. i put together a wood kit for someone once after that i just pointed to the wood stove. they didnt know there left hand from there right & it was all oak.they moved a lot and changed there name . so look at what you are buying. i did 300 bodies & never sold a kit.!!!!! charley
terry! i was at frymillers today he has some doors. charley
Thanks for the info and for looking out for us. We have 6 doors right now. 2 of these are in pretty good shape and have the bail handles which we plan on having replated and using. These two doors are good enough to use as is but I would rewood them if I had the pieces to work with. Knowing how much work the body will take, most likely will leave the doors to do later.
Having trouble locating sycamore wood here in Denver. It will be a special order with all the restrictions that go with. I'm thinking, maybe we could order some from East somewhere and have it trucked in, if we can't find someone to do the cutting for us.
Try one of these Saw Mills
Thanks for the link. When we decide on exactly what we're going to do, I will look some of these vendors up for further info.
I really appreciate your help as I have no connections nor education on wood suppliers back East.
I have sat back and just watched this, but you guys now have my interest piqued based on some comments above. As a restoration shop owner who has a wood shop in-house, I learned 20+ years ago that the kits get you close but you need to be able work with wood to do a good job. For example, if the piece in the kit is too short, -or the incorrect shape, it is doubtful you can install it correctly by cutting it again or sanding it.
I have also seen first-hand that many restorers have installed a kit and their craftsmanship was so poorly done that in just a few years of driving, the infrastructure was all coming apart. Just as with your own home construction from the floor joists to the rafters, you want the joints to all be tight to the intersecting structural member without any gaps or loose fasteners so that the structure is strong. My point in this is not to scare you, but for folks to realize that a kit is only a foundation for someone to start with and really should be installed by a craftsman that is experienced enough in woodworking where they can remake or modify pieces where the installation can be sound. All the work in the paint & upholstery is depending on it.
Also, while we have never done a T Centerdoor, we have done other similar marques/bodystyles and I am also familiar enough with the C-door, thus I would estimate to custom make all the wood and do the installation correctly where the sheetmetal is installed and the doors are swinging properly would take approximately 150-200 hours, with 40-50 hours of that just manufacturing the wood components. As someone stated above, this is not a project for the faint of heart, however someone with perseverance and a little woodworking skill can definitely pull it off.
Many of you have stated; a project, such as this will require some level of woodworking skills.
Is there a way to define the level of woodworking skill required?
My skills include: cutting firewood (that's a big one, isn't it?), structure building and modification (finishing a basement, building a garage, repair and modification of home), repair of furniture, designing and building custom furniture for a doctor's office. I have worked with wood for 50 years but I am NOT a woodworker. I am a construction machine operator and more of a mechanic by trade. I have several woodworking machines and tools along with metal working machines/tools, and mechanic tools in my garage arsenal.
BUT, this will be the first wood body car I have undertaken. Since there is no vendor near us, that can complete the body wood, I am relying on a quality vendor to manufacture the body wood for me. At this time, it appears there are no vendors making the Center Door body wood. That leaves me to do it all. A project of extremely large proportions.
Thus, I am asking for all the help I can get, from the most knowledgeable people I can find. Those people are right here on this forum. I am educating myself as best I can before jumping into a project I may not be capable of doing. At this point, it appears the only way to find out if I'm capable or not, is to just do it. Then we'll all know.
I thank all of the people who have responded and helped educate me. Having worked with Ts for just 5 or so years, I consider myself to be a newbie and in need of all the education/help I can get.
Thank You All for Your Assistance and Comments.
I would suggest posting this over on the regular forum with a link to this one. You might get more eyes on it as a question to people that have done this type body. I do have a question, how bad is the wood or is not there?
Terry, while you state you are not a woodworker, I believe a strong argument could be made countering that by you acknowledging that in your past you have built custom furniture and done trim work in your basement. It also appears you possess common sense, which quite frankly is not too common these days. I think you should try it.
As for tools, much of what I own is because it saves time which ultimately saves my customer money. Please remember that we purchase our wood (white ash) from the sawmill and then air dry it to 15%-18% so we can steam bend it if we need to however starting with kiln dried is perfectly acceptable too. I have posted some of my equipment below however you will need to look thru the wood pieces. We have a 5hp 3ph 20" planer, a Powermatic 14" band saw, a 3hp 3ph Delta 10" table saw, a Delta 43 shaper, a drill press, a 3"x36" & a 6"x48" belt sander amongst other stuff like clamps, mortising fixtures, etc., etc. We also use a Bridgeport Mill with a DRO to layout & drill/notch sills and other bigger body pieces. Do I think you would need all of this equipment to successfully redo the bodywood in your car. Absolutely not. Therefore I think you should go for it. FWIW, my contact info is in my profile if you want to call sometime and I can give you some pointers if you like. Again, best wishes!!
Brent's pictures do show how wood should fit and match the original samples--his samples are really nice ones too!
Yes, body wood requires the patience of a furniture maker and a cabinet maker. It often also requires the skills of a magician's prop maker!
Patience, attention to detail, and problem solving are what it takes. I say problem solving as many times we don't have the equipment originally used to make these parts, so you have to figure out how to do it another way.
As for wood species, it depends on what part of the body you are building. The base framework can even be made of fir and work. However, top bows need to be very strong, yet flexible. Oak is sometimes used for these, but it's not my first choice, and it's about the only place I would even use wood in a body.
So, hopefully this doesn't scare you off! If you have some equipment, and the time, you can likely do a better job than a "commercial" outfit, as you aren't working against the clock.
Thank you for the suggestion. I have opened a thread on the Forum. I'm expecting to get more education from there. I need all I can get before I jump into this project.
Thank you for the great endorsement and photo of Brent's work. It's always good to see and hear comments about a True Craftsman.
Thank you for the evaluation and support. My wife and I spent time looking at your Facebook page and photos. I can honestly say: You are a True Craftsman in every sense of the statement. Your work is superb and the results speak for themselves. This is the quality of work I strive to achieve. Thank you for providing educational material for my meager attempts to copy your work.
I will be calling you to discuss this further.
Again, I can't say this enough: Thank You All for taking time to help me in this endeavor. I will keep your comments in mind as I move forward.
Anyone have any more input on this subject?
If you do not have a copy, I suggest getting the 1923 body parts book. It has a good illustration the the center door and of course a parts list for same.
Terry and Sharon: I have the main sills, Floor boards and a few other pieces of wood that you are welcome to borrow. I also have some small pieces of hard wood you can have at no cost.
Mark, I have a copy of the 23 and other parts books. I have a good understanding of what is needed, I just need some good patterns to follow.
Dave, Thank you. We will be in touch to borrow those.
Remember there will be significant differences between the Fisher and Wadworth bodies.
Thank you for your input. I agree there are major differences between the two. As we have a Fisher body, and Wadsworth had a major fire in 1919, taking out just about all of their factory, Fisher bodies were more common '19-'20. Later body parts might not fit well on the earlier Fisher body. That's another problem I'll have to deal with.
Still looking for blue prints, plans, or drawings of the wood pieces. I'll have to fit each piece to the sheet metal I have to ensure a good fitting body when I'm finished. I have some good pieces as patterns to start with. Which body manufacturer these were patterned after, is a mystery.