I am replacing the motor in my 1911 with a correct 1911 rebuilt motor . The motor starts and runs good . The motor # is a May 1911 motor # but the casting # is 11/2/11 so it was a replaced motor with the original motors ser #. It has two peace timer and 4 ball carb and closed valves .The pan is later 1920's and the transmission cover is late 12 to 15. I can deliver to Chickasha in March . 5,500.00 or my trade for Model N/R/S project ,I have a frame . I can email picks . firstname.lastname@example.org 512 234 0243
Here the pictures!
It was brought to my Attention that the casting date 11 2 11 could not be correct . I was told that there should be a hump on top of the timing gear cover . So I took a new look at the casting numbers and you can see there is some thing at the end of the last number . You can see it in the picture of the casting numbers . I will need to sand the paint off so I can identify what that is . My guess is that it may be 11-21-12 or 13 . I plan to get someone to look at the motor soon that is a expert on these early blocks. There for it is no longer for sale until I know for sure what year it is . I am very sorry if I have inconvenienced anyone . Perry
Perry, what you see behind the last 1 in the date is the screw head that held the date plate. It is not a remnant of another number. The hump on the timing gear cover has nothing to do with the block itself. Does the timing gear cover have large embossed number 403 B or the same number but smaller in an oval above the timer?
If it was a 1911 casting block, it shouldn't have the engine number on a boss at the water inlet,
that change was supposed to have happened in late 1912, correct?
There is a referenced change in Oct. 1911 stating that motor numbers and body numbers will not match...
If the numbers weren't on the water inlet boss, where were they? The inlet boss is the only place I have ever seen them.
The block appears to have been cast in Nov. 1911, thus, it would have been used in a 1912 model vehicle, as far as I see.
Terry, we really don't know the exact dates but can only go on what's around. It's Bruce's book that states late 12 for the boss, earlier was on the front right side and the hump was in the block.
Thanks for the info. Next time I get around an early T, I'll have to look where you pointed out. It would be neat to see the numbers there. Pretty much, proves what a sheltered life I have lived.
Terry, Frank's right. My early '12 has the boss down at the lower right front of the block. It's a 90708 block number. I believe '12 blocks even had a number stamped to the right of the inlet before finally ending up on the boss above it for the duration of the Model T.
This is the "hump" on the back side of the timing gear, that Perry is talking about. It was an inside oil guide for the oil fill timer that was introduced about October, 1911 around s/n 81,000, and was used through about s/n 100,000 when the s/n boss was moved to the familiar place above the water outlet. Maybe to the right at first, as Tim suggests.
: ^ )
Does the wing nut on the valve cover mean any thing . My motor has the same wing nuts . It also has the pipe plugs for the water jacket seals . Bruce's book says that these were used up to 1913 . I will look for the number 403 B . The car is next door At my son's house , I am in the middle of making a three car carport in to a closed in shop . ITs a one man job until the weekends when I get some payback from son and son end law . Thanks for all the help in trying to get to the bottom of this .
I had a 1912 with a serial number of about 102,000 and the number was by the timing great cover. I also had one at about 120,000 and the number was near the water outlet, but not above it.
Many years ago I had an original 1912 touring with the very early 1912 touring body. This was about 1956. The casting date was in October of 1911. I do not remember the serial number, but it may have been in the 80 thousands.
1912 is an interesting year for the engine block. Between the short-lived timing gear case hump, and about four different placements for the serial number, a given block can be pretty much narrowed down to a six month window, even without looking at the serial number itself. The fact is, I don't know exactly what the sequence was through all the changes. I think I have sorted it out close for myself, but don't want to give out faulty information.
My big question for Perry G's block, is what about the water jacket behind cylinder number four? If it has the short and straight water jacket with the step out (lip) to meet up with the back of the head? The block would at least then be mid 1913 or earlier. If the block has the tapered back of the water jacket, then it would need to be mid 1913 or later. It could still have the threaded plugs. They continued until late '13 calendar (early '14 model) year. Most '14 calendar year (and all later) blocks had the Welch plugs. However, the threaded plugs can be put into the later blocks. I have seen it done. So don't accept that detail as the end-all determination.
I wish I could be interested in that engine. I think it would be perfect for one of my project piles. An engine like that would push it from something likely to remain a dream pile until my son has to dispose of all my junk, right up to probably my next priority project.
I've got a 14 with a casting date of 10-29-13 that has the pipe plugs.