Need a flapper for a Simmons carb

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Model T Ford Forum: Classifieds: Need a flapper for a Simmons carb
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Compton on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 07:36 pm:

Help.....I just received two Simmons "complete" carbs from ebay and both are missing the flapper. Does anyone have a spare or two, or know of anyone that reproduces these or might even have a picture or diagram of one so I could make them myself?? Thanks : Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 07:38 am:

Bruce, if the flapper is the same as a Kingston flapper I have some.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Compton on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 09:14 am:

Thanks Dave: I really don't know if they are the same or not. Maybe someone here will know for sure. If I had a drawing or some really good pictures, I could look into having some made as I have a friend with a machine shop. I'm sure that there are others as well as myself in need of these flappers to make their Simmons carbs work properly. Thanks again : Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 12:15 pm:

Think of it as a counter weighted choke butterfly with a shaft going thru it's center. The counter wight is just enough to keep it closed or mostly closed a low or slow engine speeds. As the air movement increases it gets sucked open.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Compton on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 12:27 pm:

Thanks Mark, that's a good start... I wonder about the diameter and if it has to be a snug fit or have lots of clearance in the bore?? Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 04:01 pm:

I don't know of anyone that has extras. Somewhere, I have one of the carburetors, It has been a long time since I have looked at it, and I don't recall if the flapper was good or not (I think it needed a repair).
The flapper is an odd shape. Balance and weight for it is fairly critical for the carburetor to work properly. I do think a replacement could be simply made using brass (shaft and sheet piece) and solder or epoxy. The issue would be getting the weight and balance right as the solder is too heavy, and the epoxy is not heavy enough. With a little effort, a combination should work fine.
The originals were a pot metal casting, and most did the pot metal disintegration thing. The best replacement would probably be a zinc casting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Compton on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 07:52 pm:

Thanks Wayne; Do you know if the flapper pivots on the shaft like a choke or throttle plate, or just hangs from it like the ones in a Kingston carb? I do know that the shaft is above the center line of the bore. Cheers : Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 - 08:13 pm:

Don't know about Wizard, but Kingston flappers had a fiber ring swaged onto them that did the sealing. There was no effort for any kind of precision...if it was closed (lowered) it pretty well clamped off the air flow and forced remaining air through the fuel puddle. I don't mess with them anymore as I've found them to tend to run rich and get poorer fuel mileage than NH's. They often do not need choking as they tend to run so rich. Others may have different experiences...for me, they run well, just not very efficiently.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 09:43 am:

Bruce -- The flapper hangs from the rod it's on and "flaps in the breeze." It's not a tight fit. They are cast from pot metal in one piece, no fiber ring.

I would be willing to loan one to someone as a pattern, if anyone wants to make some. It sounds as if there would be a market for them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 10:04 am:

Mike

are you absolutely certain about no ring? Not trying to pick an argument...just trying to learn, but of the 3 Kingstons I've rebuilt (not a lot), 2 had the remainder of a ring and one had a clear boss that a ring would have been swaged over. If there really is no ring, I am curious as to what I saw (the swaged area was well smaller than the bypass opening, so it wasn't a wear artifact...). When fit with a thin ring, the flapper sits level and without it, the flapper sits at a tiny angle and doesn't seal the bypass. Right or wrong, I fit one on each of the 3 and they ran fine. I do agree that there is nothing tight or precise about the fit, though. As far as carbs that have come across my bench, I'd say that NH's outnumber Kingstons by a huge margin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 12:14 pm:

The two flappers have nothing in common except for function. The Wizzard is just a swinging door in the opening behind the choke butterfly, the Kingston seals shut at lower speeds so air is forced thru a small hole over the fuel pool, as air volume increases its flap is pulled open allowing more air thru.
Seat of the pants; I am not sure that a small difference in weight of the counter balance would change function much. It is there to richen the mixture at low speeds and does not take much to open it all the way. Once it's open would run like NH straight thru.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Compton on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 02:56 pm:

Thanks for the offer Mike. Is there a chance that you could post a picture?? I'd like to know if there is any material above the hinge pin to act as a counterweight, or is all the material below to hinge pin and relying on light weight to allow the air flow to force it horizontal?. Thanks again : Bruce


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 06:21 pm:

The counter weight is below. If it were on top it would want to flip 360 back to the bottom.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 06:25 pm:

Suggestion to people looking to buy one of this style carbs is; to ask if the flap is present and working. Many sellers do not know what it is so ask for a photo showing it and describe where to look.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 12:38 am:

Okay. Pictures are now posted on the regular forum, where this discussion should probably be continued. Except of course, if someone has a flapper to offer to Bruce C.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/797970.html?1507782801


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 11:29 am:

Scott -- I was referring to the Simmons flapper, not the Kingston. I guess it was confusing since you had mentioned Kingstons in the post just above mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 07:04 pm:

Hi Mike

after all that, I reread what you wrote and came to that conclusion on my own yesterday. I should have spoken up sooner to you, actually. But thanks for verifying my suspicion, anyway. It actually turned into an interesting learning experience for me, as the other associated post has a Simmons/Wizard exploded photo and clarifies the assembly for me...it's all good :-)


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