I believe this is an original 2-piece timer, has good patina. Good shape, shows some wear inside. Roller looks good shape. Front cover appears to be a good reproduction, but is in excellent condition. Fan arm is a reproduction from Langs and appears to be well made.
$1,000 for the set, plus shipping. wnlag 145(AT)aol.com Thanks..
Christmas price reduction:
$800 for the set and FREE USPS flat rate shipping to anywhere in the lower 48 states.
Pretty amazing this set is still for sale after those repo brass timers sold at close to this price.
Sent an email, Les
Plus Les is an awesome guy. No worries here!
I will take it for $800. I will take care of payment in morning.
The timer set is sold. Thanks very much.
Raymond, I'm sorry, but Dave actually contacted me first and it was sold to him. Again, sorry....thanks for the interest.
Les, I am still looking for that timer and timing cover set up for my 1911 torpedo. Itís the missing link to make it complete.If you can help,Please contact me in Kingston WA.
The cover was sold, probably, by Donald B Hess who reproduced them 30 years ago. I bought one from Hess. The cover to the two piece timer looks like the reproduced cover I have for my original timer. Does someone have a photo of a known original cover?
I have never seen an original 403. I have an original 403 B with the small numbers, and an early reproduction of a 403 B with the large numbers. Darel, your 1910 should have a 403 B according to the August 1, 1909 parts list.
One thing to look for, some of the older reproductions did not fit around the stub of the crankshaft evenly and require a bit of machining. Another thing to look for is bulk. Some reproductions are thicker and weigh a bit more than the originals. If I could get my computer to co operate, I'd upload photos.
Timers were made by the Late Howard Caccia
I am talking about the timer plate or cover bolted to the engine block when I said Hess reproduced them. I have one from Hess. He charged about $100 for one. I have several original fan arms for 1909-10 covers, so I will install the set when I pull the engine this summer to put in a rebuilt mag coil.
I think the "403" was the number first used on the water pump engines. Here is a picture of my old original water pump timer cover
sorry here is the photo
This next photo is of a reproduction early cover but simular to your typical 09 cover with the large numbers. Unfortunately I never took a photo of the only original one of these I have seen.
It was the first "T403B" cover as far as I know.
This is my original 10 cover with the smaller numbers.
Early timers used till very approx. #14,000, were slightly smaller in diameter and did not have "Ford" or any writing on them. This plane cover will not fit an original later 2 piece as it is too small. Unfortunately the only photos I have are not clear
some notes I have:
09-E10 SMALLER CASE-BLANK COVER-LARGER RAISED SECTION ON LID
E10-L11 LARGER CASE-LARGER EMBOSSED COVER-SMALLER RAISED SECTION ON LID
Thanks for the valuable information, Mark. That settles the issue for me. The front cover advertised embossed 403 is clearly a reproduction. I wonder if who ever made it wanted to let folks know it was a reproduction by eliminating the B in the factory number. Either that or he simply didn't know.
The repro cover plate marked with the 403 only was a reproduction and the reason the maker did NOT put the B on it was that he was telling folks that it was the cover for the 1910 through 1911 but it IS NOT. The cover is in fact the some physical part as was used in 1911 where a vertical bolt and a lock nut was used to tighten up the belt by placing the bolt under the fan arm casting "nub".
There was NO FAN SPRING used with this cover ever. I make the spring that is used for 1910 per Ford drawing and it would never fit in that tight space and a longer belt to make room for the normal 1910 fan spring will mount the fan at a wacky place. The 1910 cover plate had a casting "well" for the fan spring to sit down into and thus with that setup the bottom of the spring is down far enough for the spring to operate between that location and the same NUB on the fan arm. That nub was on the fan arm for a long time even after it didn't do anything needed. I have the drawings for all of these covers and the one with the spring "well" is for typical 1910 and the one with the threaded boss in that same place is for typical 1911 and it did away with the fan spring. The spring that was sold with this repro 403 cover was not authentic but was a hardware store item and that stud sticking up was never used either but is simply a cutoff bolt that is run down in there and is supposedly for the spring to install over when you use the cover on 1910 but you won't find any spring that will work normally since you will have to STACK the spring coil windings to total compression and it still won't allow the fan belt to fit. I researched this rather thoroughly years ago and figured out that it was simply a case of the repro cover maker trying to expand the market for the covers he made. They WERE rather good castings if not authentic for the 1910 which is what I am claiming.
Hope this helps.
I have one of your springs on my 1910 Original Front Cylinder Cover (in photo above) and it works perfectly, thank you.
Andrew Brand has supplied some photos of an earlier original Cover with the large letters. Unfortunately the boss for the spring has been cut off across the front. But it gives a good picture of an original.
Does anyone know how to shift this thread to the Forum Discussions so it doesn't get deleted?
Yes that is the 403B with the "well" for the spring but unfortunately somebody cut that almost off. What a shame but it probably COULD be welded up and fixed with a bit of work and a correct cover nearby to measure and compare against. One can thus see what I mean by the bottom of the spring sits much lower than the repro 1911 cover with the threaded boss located at the top edge of the cover and thus no dynamic range for the spring to operate in. That cover never used a spring at all. This 403B cover picture is a great example since it shows the cutaway depth of the spring well but boy I hate that it was done.
Is it possible ford modified that cover in the interim of changing the mold, that time frame was before the assembly line ?