I would like to find an Intake Elbow connection for a Kingston Five Ball. Please contact me if you may be able to help. Thanks
I also need one, if more people have them or someone has two.
Is that a 90 degree or a 45 degree?
I don't have a spare, but there is a difference.
Herb, The Part number is 4119 and the parts book for 1909 clearly shows them to be 90 degrees. Thanks
I realize now thanks to Lloyd in California, that I may have created some confusion about this request. The parts book cites the part as a gasoline intake elbow. What I need is the gasoline intake elbow connection part number 4119 and not the Air Intake elbow. Sorry.
Thank You for posting the photos of the parts book Adam!!
looks like i need one to.10-11 dont look the same but same part # charley
This is the part, not for sale, just posting the picture.
that looks like the 10 if it has a taper inside the nut?? charley
Note that in Kim's photo, the nut to the right has a piece inside that is shaped to seal against the bottom of the fuel connection on the bowl. That piece has a 1/8 x 27 NPT male thread that screws into the elbow which has a 1/8 x 27 NPT female thread. The visible threaded piece is threaded either 1/2 x 20 or 1/2 x 18 to accept the female connection nut from the fuel line.
This would be the orientation as fitted to the carburetor.
The connection is most likely 1/2 x 18, however not all of them are. I have seen one where the connection threads are 1/2 x 20 and appeared to be factory, not a reproduction.
the thread on my carb is about .527 1/2" wont start.??? charley
Charlie, same part is used on all 5 ball carbs.
The thread size for the bowl attachment is 17/32nds x 16. = .527 nominal size. I have never been able to find a tap in this size.
I was talking about the connection for the gas line in my earlier post.
I have used a 9/16 x 16 tap to make a couple and they work but are not as tight fitting as I would like.
Contrary to what appears to be correct, the size is NOT 1/4 inch pipe thread. NPT.
9/16 - .5625
7/32 - .53125
my bowl is 18 threads. charley
What I haves sounds like Charlie's; it looks the same but is slightly larger in diameter than the common Ford fuel line thread. The thread count is correct, but it's just a little too large for the standard nut.
Kim; if you ever have one for sale please let me know!!
Charlie is right of course. It is 17/32 x 18, not 16.
Too many things going on today. Trying to get a couple carbs in the mail, do Christmas stuff and put info on the forum. It would help if I wore my glasses doing stuff like this.
That nut is only part of the assembly. It still has to have the part that mates to the boss in the bottom of the inlet and the 1/8 x 27 male NPT that the elbow screws on to.
Kim and/or Stan;
I just want to be sure I understand correctly. The male thread on the elbow that mates with the nut that secures the fuel line is a slightly larger diameter than the 'common' elbow of the later carburetors..... and therefore the common fuel line nut won't fit.
If that is the case I'm good to go. While I'd love to find an original nut, we made one up that fits the elbow on my carb. The elbow I have looks identical to the one in the picture above.
Gary! could you make some more?????charley
No. Thread on the bowl is 17/32 x 18. There is a nut that screws on there that has a hole large enough for the 1/8 x 27 NPT male thread to pass through. That piece has a flange that mates to the compression boss on the bowl. When the nut is tightened it seals the flange to the boss.
The 17/32 x 18 threaded nut screws to the threads on the bowl.
Then there is an elbow that is threaded 1/8 x 27 NPT on the female end with 1/2 x either 18 or 20
TPI for the clamp nut to thread on with packing around the fuel inlet line.
If I wasn't so tired I would go back out to the shop and take some photos of some of the larger ones but I'm not sure I could walk back out there again tonight.
Making some sets of these has been on my to do list for several years. It is possible to have taps made or make them from drill rod. If you use 260 brass hex to make the nut from it would be pretty easy to thread.
I'm going to have to make at least one, I have a 5 ball in line that is missing the inlet.
I don't have any way to cast that connector elbow, tho. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Where is Les? He can cast about anything.
Here is a picture of the inside of the elbow that mates to the carb inlet fitting. Also the tapered pipe thread at the inlet side of the elbow.
I took an original apart and took some photos of it a couple weeks ago, I'll see if I can get them posted so you at least know what you are looking for. They are made from unobtainium.
I finally got a minute to take some photos of the correct fuel inlet setup for the early, small Kingston 5 ball. This is not the only design I have seen but it is always hard to know what has been changed. This is an elbow with a machined inlet tube. It fits in the nut, a ferrule is placed over the tube and it is tightened on the threaded boss on the bowl. This is a bastard thread that seems to be some special thread they used but may have been common 100 years ago. I have a piece of 9/16 drill rod and will attempt to make a tap to thread them with when I can get the time to do it.
This is the more common style.
Stan, thanks for contributing your photos, but being a novice at the early carbs, I do not know which connection I need. Please look at the attached photo of my Carb and let me know your thoughts.
You need the smaller one in the upper photo. The larger ones are used on the larger and later 5 balls, which came in a wide variety of sizes and styles -- at least a dozen sizes and several mounting styles in each size. Some are updraft flange, some are threaded connection, some are single fuel, some are dual fuel, etc.
This small one used on the early T Ford probably used the same connection as the other small ones but nothing I have ever found has this bastard thread size and this type of connector. Obviously I have not seen all sizes, styles and connectors, tho.
I will try to make a run of these later on this month but right now I don't have time to try to cut a tap to fit the thread.
What would keep the elbow from leaking where it mates to the carb inlet fitting in the third picture above? It seems the fitting is designed so that it would have to fit absolutely tight against the female connection.
Is that perhaps a ferrule that is sweated on?