See Craigs list ad for a picture of a toasted 1926 "T" Austin TX CL
Fire appears to have been electrical, looking at the firewall terminal block, the engine compartment is not burn, but the only wire not fried is the one going to the horn.
The link that Jim posted above is an email address to contact the owner via the Craigslist email relay system.
Here is the link to the ad:
It does not say in the ad that there was an electrical fire so I guess you are assuming there was and you want others to believe in your assumption because you use fuses?
Believe what You want, I didn,t have a fuse in My T either when I got it.But after sparks started shooting out of the dash when I switched the lights on one night, I put in a main fuse, This ad has some clear picture of a model T fire starting from what ever source, that burnt up all of the small wire at the "FIRE WALL" terminal block,and consumed the rest of the car back. Could have been the driver dropped his cigarette in the car, But my 60 + years experience in servicing electrical and electronic equipment tell's me it Looks like a electrical fire, since the engine compartment is not burnt and all the wires on the firewall terminal going to and from the dash are burnt up except the horn wire. But every one can make up their own mind, just as You have. Speaking for My self ONLY. I sleep better knowing My T which is parked in My attached garage is fused.
Tim, it says in the first line of the ad that it doesn't run because there was a fire in the cab.
Jim, I am getting ready to wire my 1911 as original but added LED safety lighting. Should I put a fuse in the hot wire coming from the battery? This electrical stuff is all going under the rear seat. Thanks, Bill
Mysterious combustion I guess, Right Tim?
Why can't you believe a fuse can save your car or even somebody's life. As a ex firefighter I am glad to see people protecting there property and loved ones.
Again, no where in the ad does it say there was an electrical fire so why assume there was?
Just like any car, if your equipment is up to snuff then you'll be OK.
15 million plus - no fuse...
Henry didn't use fuses in his Model T's. But that is likely because they weren't available for automobile use before 1927! I have no quarrel with those who do not use fuses. It is their car, after all. I just happen to like my T, and I know that lots of things vibrate and shift around over the miles. If your hot wire happens to rub the insulation off and you burn up something, even if the car doesn't catch fire, chances are it won't be good.
If you are adding safety lights to your '11, you are probably not worried if a judge sees a fuse under your rear seat. (Having been rear-ended in my "correct" T, I am now an unapologetic enthusiast of safety lights.)
I just think of it this way; I don't ever want to see MY car posted on this forum with the debate as to what caused the fire! I'm just sayin'. . . . the judge won't be subtracting nearly as many points for a fuse as he would from the above-listed car in it's present condition!
Why do you suppose all auto makers eventually started to fuse the wiring in their cars? Back when the Model T was being manufactured no one thought about putting fuses into their autos to protect from shorts and fire. I am sure of the 15 million T's produced a few burnt because of electrical shorts. To suggest anything other than that is foolish. Jim I am with you on this. Adding the fuse is an insurance policy that has a one time cost of around $8.
I only own one T with a starter and generator. It didn't use a fuse from the factory, and it isn't going to get one either! The secret to a good electrical system is good wiring, and clean connections, and common sense.
to fuse or not to fuse that's the question! my my, there is a very good other way to protect your investment.its called a battery disconnect.. no fuse needed.and its hidden from prying eyes. glad I got my confuzer working in the nick of time.
Richard You are most correct, a Battery disconnect works well when the car is parked, no protection bouncing down the road when a wire shorts out, but then most Ts have a fire extinguisher on board to cover such events, "No Problem"
I suspect that if/when I have a fire due to an electrical problem, that by the time I get the fire extinguisher out and save the day, I'll have spent more than $8 on repairs. On my 27, the ignition switch shorted out the magneto. On taking it apart, one of the contacts had melted/burned a large chunk out of the material the contacts were attached to.
The guys who feel fuses are unnecessary remind me of wood workers who come into my store and carry on about the needless expense of a Saw Stop table saw. " I've been using a saw all my life blah blah blah". On several occasions these same guys have come in with a freshly shortened digit and a new found respect for technological advances. It is a costly lesson of which they will be reminded daily for the rest of their lives.
John, I really don't care if anyone else uses fuses or not. That is up to them. You might be able to go the rest of your life without putting a fuse in your model T and never have a problem. That wouldn't be unusual. However what if? That is why I like fuses. My Ts have new wiring, clean contacts and my common sense says a fuse isn't a bad thing. I also like safety glass, turn signals, brake lights, and rear view mirrors even though Ford never put these on a Model T at the factory. I guess we have some people driving around with plate glass windshields because that's what Henry used at the factory. Go figure.
(Message edited by ole on April 05, 2018)
Is this your car?...
Why post if you have nothing constructive to say? Stir the pot as usual.
I bet that car has fuses in it, That's why he posted it ?
I have 9 Model T's and all either have or will get fuses, and they have all new wiring, a fuse is a small investment for a sometimes large investment. To each his own. Safety is #1
My pickup has it's own little 20 amp circuit breaker.
I did learn a couple things during that 3 years it took me to get a 2 year degree in electronics.
I can take peoples boo's a lot easier than I can rebuild my T if something smokes.
Let's talk about a more civil subject .... like ... "what motor oil should I use in my Model T?"
Hey, I am just trying to de-fuse the situation.
If you let the smoke out it's OK Lucas makes a replacement wire harness smoke #54953043 comes is a bottle and Made in England but for positive earth only?
It only works on BSA Motorcycles :-)
"Lucas Prince of Darkness" MG owner Quote.
Lucas Service Part
Lucas distributor on a English Ferguson T0-30 "I think" tractor! That thing will make you cuss in more than 1 language. I have to go file the points on 1 every spring for a old guy so he can plow his garden. Can't get parts for it. Everything is "close" but no cigar.
You all do know Lucas made vacuum cleaners?
They wanted at least 1 item in their product line that DIDN'T suck.
Here's an update on that 26 Coupe in the Austin CL. I ended up with it. It was not an electrical fire, it was a grass fire that got into the floor boards then the interior as it had been parked behind a barn in the country. I bought it for parts, intending to sell the body and keep the rest for a Depot Hack or Speedster project. As I've disassembled it I've found that the frame number matches the engine number. Don't know that this affects my plans for the car, but it was a pleasant surprise.
I have worked on a lot of British cars over the years but had never seen the Lucas Replacement Wiring Harness Smoke or heard of the Lucas vacuum cleaner quip before. What a hoot! :D
I would like to put a fuse on my T. Is a 20A fuse at the main feed coming off the starter switch a good option?
Mack, I remember my 1940 Ford had a circuit breaker for the sealed beam headlights which were new for that year. I believe its function was to lower the current in case of excessive draw in order to protect the wiring, but would allow the headlights to continue functioning somewhat. Fortunately I never had to put it to use.
Just because T's didn't have a fuse, some others of the era did.
Better be safe than sorry, fuses fuses fuses.
In my younger years I was an private investigator for insurance companies that insured cars trucks boats and aircraft.
Our job was to investigate and try to place the source and pinpoint the location of the place of origin. We not only investigated the fire but the background of the insured, which you agree to when you buy insurance.
Some fires were beyond any possibility of location and source. We had a term for those that sorta covered our bases. In the appropriate place on the form we added the simple but informative statement. Under "source" we put unknown, under "cause" we put "FINANCIAL COMBUSTION" that seemed to cover it.
brass car guy,
Oh. My. Goodness! LOVE IT.
ERIC. A 20 amp fuse at the starter will provide basic protection for a hard short or overload. I installed mine at the wiring terminal strip on the firewall where i can easily get to it, I also use it as a electrical disconnect when I am working on the electrical system, Back in the day there were a number of aftermarket fuse kits sold for the Model T, I saw one recently installed on a 26 Coupe that used 10 fuses, it fused every thing electrical with its own lower amperage fuse, Headlights, left & right, high & Low beams, tail light, generator,coils,main fuse,cut out ?, If You really want protection this is the way to do it,in rare cases a short circuit may not draw enough current to blow the 20 amp main fuse but enough to smoke smaller wires going to lighting,and other lower current items. The single 20 amp fuse at the terminal strip is what I use on My 26 just because it is easy to install, and provides basic protection in most cases. "No Guarantees"
"To Fuse or not to fuse" Your car, Your choice.
Yeah who needs a fuse!
John, what's the story on the fire, looks like a 56 mercury smoldering ? were other cars destroyed. looks like they saved the House, a real nightmare for some body.
Thanks Jim. I think the 1 fuse system is going to do for me.
This old switch has a fuse. It looks like it only goes to the horn but if you take the back off the way it works it goes to the lights as well. It doesn't connect to the coil. I had a 1938 Chevrolet and I remember one place for a fuse that somebody had twisted copper wire between, I've got a 1947 Hudson now and the only fuse I can recall goes to the clock. It's like 1amp and blows all the time.
That ignition switch is a neat accessory Corey.
I assume the clock on your Hudson doesn't work even with a new fuse? If it's like the electric operated one on the '52 Ford then it just needs cleaning. The dirty balance wheel stops and its peg just sits next to the electric contact pulling current constantly, so the fuse finally blows.
So where are the fuses installed? Where is the best spot?
It's marked on this diagram, with some text:
Thanks. I'm going to put one in.
Robert.I have a 26 touring 12 volt, I installed a 20 amp fuse holder at the terminal block on the engine side of the firewall, easy to change fuse and useful as a quick power disconnect when working on the electrical system,little chance of a short between the starter foot switch and the fuse holder, and You don,t haft to crawl under the car or remove the floor board to change the fuse. To fully fuse each circuit on a T takes 6 to 10 fuses, but a single main fuse provides basic protection for most Hard shorts,If Your car has a generator with a cut out You may need to put a fuse directly on cut out as well to prevent generator run away if the main fuse blows with the engine running."No Guarantees"
Jim, I can relate to your comment per “generator run away”. After I had installed a fuse, I was checking voltage with the multimeter and accidentally caused a short, thus blowing the fuse. Since I had the lights on at the time, All bulbs were instantly burned out by generator “run away” over voltage. The coils didn’t seem to mind though as the engine kept on running until I could shut it off.
Thanks for the input Jim. My T isn't running yet but when it is I will put one in. I always keep the negative wire off the battery on all my old cars when I am not with them. Mark, I made a copy of your diagram for reference.
Tim! OT as usual.
On the yellow wire from the battery is the best place.
The first F.A. system put on the Ford placed a fuse on the yellow wire going to the ammeter.
Yes, the first 1919's with starter and generator had a fuse! Was later deleted, but still is valid to use today on our T's for safety. Back then you could get accessory fuse holders for the Ford to prevent fires from crisp shorts that can smolder and set on fire nearby materials.
Best to place it nearest the power source (battery).
and today's neat fuse holder in place for a safer Ford.
Spring time Good time to add a Fuse to Your T
"To FUSE OR NOT TO FUSE" Your car Your choice.
1923 Ford Coupe Period retro fuse block, Ten fuses for just about everything electrical.
This Littlefuse 356 series fuse block is not period...
Amazon probably has them...
Post the link.I like to buy some.
8 fuse version on ebay
How would you determine the correct amperage rating for each circuit?
The current would be the total for that circuit such as high beams say 5 ? amps fuse 50 to 100% more about 7 1/2 to 10 amp fuse. Horn needs to have a separate fuse.maybe one of the engineers on this forum can tell us the correct way to calculate it. another factor is if the fused circuit has a resistive or inductive load such as light bulb, or a OOOGA horn motor which has surge locked rotor amps/LRA current on start up. One 20 to 25 amp main fuse will give basic protection against a hard short, but the problem with using just one large main fuse. It is too large for some of the lower current smaller circuits, which in the event of a hard short should blow the fuse, but i have seen a short where there was not enough current drawn to blow the fuse smoking the smaller wire, RARE indeed but I have seen it happen.
To Those who don't believe in using fuses. Please disregard this post! https://youtu.be/Etucn31tFVI
The following links for sources of fire wall mount multiple fuse. Terminal/Fuse blocks.