I think you should be member of Model T Club of America before you can post. And only if you have paid the dues.
I agree - but we are in the minority.
Just as ď The Vintage Ford ď is a printed source of information paid for - in part - by MTFCA membership dues - the MTFCA forum is made possible by MTFCA membership dues.
As a retired software engineer, there are filters that are available for a cost to filter out this type of spam...
just like there are filters to eliminate spam in email accounts
Just like there are programs to prevent telemarketers from getting through to you on your phones.
it all comes down to cost, enough spam and you lose good users, so it's a cat and mouse game.
anyway, just my 2cents.
I have no problem when they post it's what there are posting it should be model t club related ads just my opinion
Whatever, just stop posting to the garbage posts. They're almost scrolled off the page and as soon as they're posted to again, there they are right back at the top which is exactly what the spammer wants.
Clyde, as a lifetime MTFCA member, I agree with you and FJ, but we do seem to be in a minority. The theory is, that open forum brings in new members.
This Forum Is as active as it is BECAUSE it's a world wide open Forum.
The forum would be a ghost town if payment was required...
Nothing is free - I disagree
If someone visits the MTFCA Museum In Richmond, Indiana - they pay admission to enter & visit if they are not an MTFCA member.
Part of supporting a community is financial support - bills are paid with money.
I think I read the forum for a year before I joined. I might have asked questions during that time, i can't remember. I like the idea of open access but understand the need for membership to keep it going. Maybe a limited number of posts then spam them with messages or massages ( my spell check can't tell ) of the benefits of membership.
I was a member for many years and failed to renew after I sold my "last" Model T several years ago, although I'm back into the "T" hobby again, probably more involved that ever. I can totally understand the suggestion that only members could post here, but if you really think about it, most of the info posted here is probably already available in a "Vintage Ford" somewhere and as for the "forum", it would be like "preaching to the choir". I've been in this hobby for 50 years and honestly believe that this MTFCA site (classifieds and forum) is without doubt the absolute best source of vintage FORD automobile information anywhere. I see it as a huge motivator to actually joining the club when "non-members" can access and comment on information posted here, whereas they might be less impressed and less anxious to join the club if they were not allowed to get involved directly on this site.
I sometimes will check a posterís profile to see if they list a membership number. I am often amazed that a lot of our self proclaimed experts donít have one.
Were it not for obnoxious spammers hocking their scams on the forum, this division between member / non-member would not even be a topic.
Requiring membership for forum use would not likely raise MTFCA's membership numbers by any measurable degree, but we would see the number of like-minded friends here vaporize overnight.
Anything that furthers the hobby is a good thing and losing traffic here would be a negative thing. Once that door is open, are spectators not allowed to view our T's in public, are we to limit our personal discussions with only other members? There has to be a reasonable line somewhere and it always seems everybody is perfectly happy until the spammers infiltrate. No reason that members and non-members alike cannot be on the same side against them.
Ya there are a couple of other sites that would gain membership. What does belonging to the club have to do with what you know about T's? Just because you have a membership number does not mean you know poo!
We don't need to make people pay for the privilege of using the forum, that will have a negative impact on some of the new owners and people considering buying a T.
I do think some sort of application process, where someone sends a request and it has to be approved, would be appropriate. It would slow down initial posters, but the trade off is worth it.
Wasn't there a period in the past (when Bruce M. was still alive), that a password was required? I have to admit, I HATE passwords. I have to write each and every one that I have down so I can remember them, but it might be worth it to "cut the crap", or maybe have to answer a security question, like, "what year models of Model T's were built?" Might be too simple as the info is readily available to a spammer, but if they aren't the brightest light on the front porch, it might help.
I Totally disagree about having to have a Membership to Post
Many people have Several Different Makes of Cars and Also have a Model T's They often purchase Parts that may Include T Parts but do not belong to Every Club that they have a car of. So If you MUST be a Member We will simply miss out on their Excess Parts they might have for sale and Hope they bring them to a Swap Meet, if there is even one close to You.
I Support the Hobby but I have no Intention of Supporting 50+ Chapters -Don
Ps: I have been a Member of both National Model T Clubs long before there was an Internet
I agree with others here that this is a terrible idea. Anytime you force people to pay for something as basic as just asking questions and or giving advice to another fellow or potential new T owner would not advance the hobby one bit, it would probably do just the opposite.
Itís just good manners.
Take advantage of the information here be a member. Education cost something. Really 35 bucks a year and a great magazine, pony up.
I looked on here for almost two years before I became a member. The reason I came here was it was free and had a lot of information to help me out. If this was a paid site then I would have never found out how good it was and I would have never joined MTFCA. You would have lost a member trying to make this a "secret hand shake club".
I've posted the following in the past:
I disagree regarding a membership requirement to post an ad. If you do this, you will limit buyer and seller opportunities and cut down the number of leads on available Model T Ford cars and parts.
In my opinion, more people own Model T Fords than are members of the Model T Ford clubs. Some of these people are active antique automobile hobbyists and just aren't interested in being members of a Model T Club. They may or may not be members of other national or local car clubs (such as AACA, HCCA, VMCCA, CCCA, etc.). Others simply own Model Ts for various reasons, such as through an inheritance, purchasing a car at a weak moment, etc.
Also, there are many people in the old car hobby who specialize in other makes and just happen to have Model T Ford cars or parts that they may want to sell.
I have no problem having any of the above types of Model T car or parts owners posting legitimate ads.
If a person has Model T Ford cars or parts for sale, why would you want to restrict that person from posting an ad? Likewise, if a person wants to purchase a Model T or is looking for parts for his/her Model T, why would you want to restrict them from posting a want ad? Model T Ford car and parts transactions between members and non-members benefit both parties.
PS: my Model T Ford as well as a majority of anything that I have related to Model Ts such as parts and literature were not acquired from people in the hobby or members of car clubs including Model T Ford clubs.
There is lots of free education/information given here from members of the club and non members. It takes time out of our lives to post information trying to help someone. Sometimes even takes some research on the person part that is trying to help. It is a win win situation.
Well said mark, when people say you have to "pony up" to have an opinion and to help someone, then i think all is lost here.
I'm a member, but I don't post my membership number, don't see the need. I have been a member, off and on, since the late '80's I think. Sometimes life gets in the way and I let my membership lapse for awhile, sometimes quite awhile, before I can get back in the groove. I have posted what little help that I feel I am qualified to and also received great advice on here both while being a member and not. I think it's great just the way it is. JMHO Dave
This place would be a ghost town if you had to be a member!
I loved Marks earlier comment "Just because you have a membership number, does not mean you know Poo"
A perfect example of this is a person who becomes a member of a bunch of groups & brags about every one of them trying to keep himself relevant, but has(according to people close to him) never owned a classic car of any kind & the only thing he knows about them is what he reads & repeats from posts!
"pony up"- LMAO. I've ponied up to the tune of thousands of dollars spent on multiple cars over the years. If this was a members only forum it would be non-existent...
I'd hate to think that there are folks on here passing judgement based on whether there is a membership number listed under a poster's profile.
There is good wisdom in what has been said. Requiring membership might weed out some OT adverts but being too exclusive would surely lose some great posters. I have been a member of several clubs for 50 years now. I think any serious car nut would join one at some point. This forum has wonderful participation from many sources, Model T as well as a wealth of info on other car related subjects. Too pare it down in any way would be a mistake. We have already lost some great contributors.
Thank you all for your thoughts.
Just my thoughts, I have gained some very fun and useful information from our forum, I have over the years been subject to spam or bogus responses to ads. I am a member with a number and enjoy the Vintage Ford, The classifieds and this forum are great, keep it going, and you should not have to be a member to enjoy it's benefits. Jim
And folks wonder why alot of old cars wind up street rods. The "secret handshake club" mentality is part of the reason why.
I was a member for several years.Still a member of the local club, great people. But some things happened and were said that offended me here on the forum and I dropped out of MTFCA at that time.
My T is almost road worthy. For me to tour with the local club I am a member of I will need to rejoin MTFCA and when i do I will put my number in the profile for the world to see.
(Message edited by tdump on June 04, 2018)
Look for free, pay to play(post), not fair to those of us that are members. The way I see it. Non members could still have information access. Might cut down on Spam and BS. I would hope all who have responded on this topic are members in good standing?
For those who are misinformed- taken from the home page:
"The design goal of this site is to make this a dynamic, interesting and easy-to-use web experience for all Model T owners and people who enjoy the Model T hobby worldwide."
Perhaps the folks who want people to pay to use a forum could start their own?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Can't believe that would have to be mentioned to this group!!!
I joined MTFCA 1st then joined the Forum. It is my way of supporting the hobby.
There are a lot of people who are not members that bring good resources to the table. So if you make people "pay to play", you'll lose some of that.
In regards to what Tim Rodgers said, if you are in this hobby,and you have a T or doing something positive for the T hobby,you have already ponied up.
Preservation of the cars and their heritage is supposed to be the goal, not profit.
I buy from the catalog vendors,swap meet vendors,I buy parts from directly from fellow hobbyist. 3 T's exist so far because of years of my hard work.
I will say,I understand alot of the issue that prompts these discussions.Spammers. All sites have them. Not all sites go to pay to play to deal with them.
Well I'm going to go far out on a limb with this one and admit that I am one of those who is a forum member and not a member of the MTFCA.
Please take this in positive manner that it is intended. I do appreciate what the forum has helped me with.
And here are some of the reasons why one works and not the other and a suggestion at the end to try to help out.
For those outside of the US (like me in eastern Canada), the higher cost for membership combined with the current exchange costs raises the cost for me to be a member to nearly $100 CDN dollars. For that I would get 6 copies of a very good magazine (yes I've seen it and it is very good), but I am also too far away to participate in tours and meets and the rest of the club events.
The forum is very helpful for information and I try to provide some help back where I can. Its a trade of information.
My understanding one of the key roles 0f the MTFCA and MTFCI, AACA, etc. etc. is to promote the preservation, restoration, operation of Model T Fords and other old cars. You could think of it like a loss leader to promote the hobby. The AACA forum and some similarly useful Yahoo Group forums are also free and have been and can be good sources of information.
Other positives to maintain the current forum membership structure:
- For sellers, a wider market to sell your parts
-For buyers , a wider range of possible parts sources
- Information, world wide flow of information on Model Ts and all their various versions and idiosyncrocies.
Perhaps MTFCA could consider setting up a donation box system where non-MTFCA forum members could make an on line donation (PayPal comes to mind). Donations help keep Wikipedia going. I think a lot of forum members would gladly make a donation now and then. I expect it takes a lot less to keep the forum up and operating than it does to print a magazine. A few dollars per non-member forum member might provide a bigger nest egg than many would expect.
Respectfully and thank you to MTFCA for the forum.
There is a donation box in the classifieds. I wonder how many people that WANT only club members to post have been helped by non members? Dan, I wonder how many got that? Re "Ozziewire". Ok so I too am not a member, but I try and help, as others do, to the best of my ability. It's my way of giving back to the T community.
Requiring a membership to post here is the same as being a poor host...
If there is spam posted here that members dislike and just canít deal with, then they should contact administrators and board members to have it taken care of swifter... Usually these things take their course in a couple days and/or get deleted and its no big deal.
A modern, up to date forum would be great at preventing this sort of thing, but it seems the majority here dislikes any change.
I have been a model t enthusisest and owner of a '27 t since 1969, at the age of 18. I'm 67 and was just now informed about the mtfca classifieds which I have used for the last 6 months I very much enjoy the information I aquire and have since joined the MTFCA june 4th just my input as a new member thanks for the opportunity of your classifieds and the club Mike
I too feel that you should be a Member of the MTFCA to post on these boards !
Support the MTFCA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not only that but you get a wonderful magazine 6 times a year !
If one was to be a little frugal in other areas of life such as buying coffee , cigs , beer , ETC then they could afford a membership without being a crybaby about a few bucks !
Otherwise you guys leave it up to us paying members for the cost of the website ! If nobody pays = NO WEBSITE .........
"The design goal of this site is to make this a dynamic, interesting and easy-to-use web experience for all Model T owners and people who enjoy the Model T hobby worldwide."
^ From right off the "about MTFCA" page.......
Cant seem to edit my post.
By the way, I dont smoke or drink, every penny is accounted for for me.
I do not like it when someone tells me I have to join a club in order to participate in any hobby. Its a complete turnoff to younger people as well.
I have alot from Ts to Trains, Steam and Gas Engines, Boats (full and scale), and aeroplanes (scale RC and an ultralight in the plans) and Im a younger (in my 30s) hobbyist.
Chris will eventually delete the spam posts. I dont know why we cant be patient for him to do so, instead of a big how to do every time someone spams the forum. Just dont post in them to bring em back to the top!
Freedom of knowledge sharing is what made the internet great. Locking up knowledge would be counter-productive to the end goal of this site, which likely isn't geared toward keeping knowledge of what might be a rewarding exercise out of sight & mind.
People don't know what they don't know, until they find out!
My thoughts are if they can hack into bank and government computer systems what makes you think they can't hack a different format for the forum or get in to a forum that requires a membership!
Locks are for honest people...if a crook wants in they'll get in!
I read two conflicting issues:
1. Everyone should be allowed to post to promote free exchange of information on the Forum and availability of Model T parts in the classified.
2. Unrestricted posting privilege is vulnerable to excessive spam that discourages reading the Forum and classifieds.
So, how about a simple "Model T" theamed "I am not a spammer" test in order to post? (like the I am not a robot test but tests for Model T familiarity rather than general knowledge)
For Example, before a posting privilege is granted, the poster must answer one or more Model T questions like:
What was the first Model T production year?
How many drums are in the Model T transmission?
What is the name for the Model T cooling method?
Original pistons were made of what material?
What type of material are main bearings made of?
How many magnets are mounted to the flywheel?
Knowledge Model T folks who can learn and/or contribute from the Forum and classifieds would typically know but casual spammers would not know without doing research.
Mike: A "T" themed filter....why not ??.. possible to weed out drug pusher spammers.
Lets move this over to the "Forum" The forum is where you exchange info about how to/ what was etc. selling stuff does not translate to information exchange. I personally have no problem with non-members using the forum, to gather information needed to repair/restore or enjoy their cars. However the classifieds is another matter, after all you are selling parts to make money and I find it interesting that some of the most frequent sellers and or commentators about others ads, are not members and don't seem to have any interest in the club. Just my point of view, I have a life membership, seldom post, but do read this forum and classifieds. Perhaps a limit on the number of free posts by non-members per year on classifieds is in order, although I don't want to make any additional work for Chris, his work in maintaining this site is very much appreciated.
Isn't it funny that people with lower number of posts are the ones making the most stink about people that don't join the club for one reason or other, sometimes more personal then can be talked about here.
Just as having a membership number is no indication of one's level of knowledge, neither is ones post count a measure of the quality of information provided by the poster. Some people sit at a keyboard and hammer out crap all day, or a high percentage of their posts consist of "Bump". Just grade people for what they are. All this moral relativism is what has people at each others throats in the first place.
Wow, I really didn't know there were that many people on here who resented people like me. I have been a member of the MTFCA off and on since about 1975 when I was 16 years old. Right now, I'm not a member.
I have been unemployed for about four-and-a-half years. I was a software engineer in the defense industry for about 30 years. The SW industry started this new trend of getting rid of the "old guys" and bringing in engineers from India who will work for half what an American will. I'm 58 years old and trying to transition to a new career. I have no income--not old enough for Social Security and the government has really cracked down on people trying for disability. I could (maybe) get a job at McDonalds but they don't see me as someone who wants to stick around in a job like that.
I'm getting by, but frankly, I can't really afford to pay any dues right now. So, what should I do? If I'm not wanted here either, then I'll just go quietly away.
I don't think that was their intention Rick. MTFCA has not responded to me a single time when I have sent feedback probably due to other priorities.
What they need is simple: More moderators - and I am sure there are many here who would be willing to volunteer - maybe even an experienced software Engineer:>)
My vote is to let anyone post as long as it is something to do with the Model T, MEMBER OR NOT. I have bought parts from the classifieds from members and non-members and will buy more when things are listed that are needed. It might be the members that pay for the cost of this site but it is not that much every year and we all benefit from it. I never joined myself because my wife wanted to be the member so I stepped back and let her join 10 years ago. If she had not joined I would have. We always do things together and since our money is used to pay for this site as well as other members we feel it is OK to let non-members post here.
We just sold my wifes 1927 Touring to a new T owner and he is not a member but is looking here for info to fix some of the things we didn't have time to get to. I was helping him yesterday to work on the car and he handed me 5 pages he had printed out from the Forum from 2010 and we used the info to find the problem with the drag link. Turns out it was to short and came from an early car which caused it to hit the bottom of the pan in hard left turns. This caused it to bend and made the car unsafe to drive. Thanks to the forum we found the problem and will make it right which might have saved an accident waiting to happen. I bet he will join MTFCA in the near future. That alone is worth putting up with a little spam from time to time. We will never know how many people read this forum and use what they learn but if you charge them to use it, they wont.
KEEP IT FREE!!!
Rick as far as I am concerned you are more than welcome here. You are seeing the very loud "vocal minority" that always seem to rear their vocal head when things do not seem to go like they like it. I was not going to wade into this mess, but I would hate to see someone leave because of the negativity of others.
Now about someone looking at my membership ID to see if I am a "member in good standing" to make me "worthy" of posting on the forum or selling some items (or buying). "REALLY" I would never have thought that one up. I have been a member for years. I did let my membership laps for a few years after our house burnt to the ground and I did not have any extra money to buy a membership. But if it makes some folks more at ease I am a current member in good standing, and have been for years. But my membership ID is not listed and more than likely never will be. I never really had any reason why I never listed it before, I just never thought it was important. but now I do have a reason to "not list it". Thanks for putting a purpose to my life.
I believe this forum will die and wither away, starting the day a person has to become a member to play. I for one will probably be one of the ones who just quit hanging around here. Ill leave it to the ones with "deep pockets" (even though I will still be a member in good standing as far as membership goes) I am as addicted Model T nut as there is, but the childish whining of some of the folks on here make me want to pick up my marbles and go play some where else.
The "free" part of the forum is what attracts the young guys that have very little money. The wealth of "free" knowledge as well as parts availability makes it a more realistic option to even consider an old car hobby. ,I challenge the ones who want to make it "pay to play" Quit your job, and get a job at McDonalds and see how quick you think 30.00 becomes a lot of money. Even most of us retired folks with a fixed income still have more "expendable money" than someone just starting out.
As to selling in the classifieds. Its not just a "money making scheme" to make a "killing" selling parts on the classifieds. It is an asset to all the members to have "ANYONE" list parts to sell. Sometimes the seller is just wanting to get rid of "Dads" stuff, or someone bought a couple boxes of Model T parts with his 57 Chevy parts. Those guys are not going to list them here if they have to "pay to play" Or how about the daughter who found a "Rajo" in the shed. She does not know what it is, but knows it may be something for a Model T. She may not want to "pay to play" and ask some questions. So it ends up in the scrap pile at the local recycle lot. Yes, things like that happen all the time....
So my vote is to leave things alone, and let Chris and whoever may help him try and fix the little problem that seems much bigger to some folks ...
(Message edited by dobro1956 on June 06, 2018)
(Message edited by dobro1956 on June 06, 2018)
Hats off to Royce Peterson who foot's the bill for a EXCELLENT Model T website!! ( modeltfordfix.com ) all On his own and doesn't kvetch about member/non member status.
Amen to that Jay - and it is a GREAT, site!!!
I wonder if those complaining about participants on this Forum being MTFCA members realize that their comments may actually have an OPPOSITE effect on membership??!!
My take is I don't think anyone should have to join a club to participate on a forum!
Having said that, I just for the first time sent in for a membership. For me it is only fair, because I gain income from the forum.
I am a car guy to the "enth" degree. I have 6 in my stable + 3 other trucks. I admire, appreciate & respect all collector/hot rod/exotic cars. I have never owned a "T" & may never own one(had an "A" pickup once) & I never claim to be a "T" guy. My taste is more to the hot rod/exotic/oddball stuff.
I advertise on 6 or 8 forums & have every year made a reasonable donation to each one that accepted donations...Except this one! The reason for that is an underlying policy that infuriates me. I will not say what that is, but I am sure there are a couple of dozen members who know what it is. If a Moderator or anyone else needs to know why up until now I didn't donate, get in touch with me "Off Forum"
Now that I will have a membership number, it will be in my profile, but you will NEVER see it in any of my ads or how many years I have been a member of any particular club like others who use that in a lame attempt to stay relevant
EVER TRIED TO STOP JUNK MAIL? every day when I go to my mail box there is a big fist full of junk mail I went to the post office,they told me there is not a thing they can do about it,remember when you could [RETURN TO SENDER]?? no more, you have to put postage on it,and that is a waste of your money and time and all that's good for is it costs you fifty cents for them to throw it away.so now I look at it this way,someone is making the paper,someone is trucking this paper,someone is printing this paper, and the mail man has a job delivering this junk mail, all I need to do is pay the trash man to truck it to the dump,think of the job's, the sad part, the waste of the trees,so my advice, read it if you must or over look it, yell at some one about it if that makes you feel better,otherwise skip over it and go on and enjoy the forum as it is,all it takes is the klic of the button,and its gone. why let a few wreck it for many.
Quit posting on this and it will go away