I am in need of a Scat Crank. I will pay TOP DOLLAR for this part.
Are these getting hard to find now or just a long wait to get one?
I have been waiting 5 months for 2 new cranks. Scat is giving everyone the run around. I will pay TOP DOLLAR to anyone who is willing to part with one.
There are several on Ebay, https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Scat-Forged-4340-Steel-Crankshafts-Fits-Ford-Model- T-1908-1927-7-T-4000/132705210686?epid=3021494956&hash=item1ee5d8d13e:g:RJYAAOSw c15bTCVX:rk:23:pf:
Bob -- There was a problem with their manufacturing process, which some Model T'ers pointed out to them. Apparently they're having a difficult time correcting it before making a run of new ones. They'll get it fixed eventually, I expect.
Referencing the one on eBay, I wouldn't pay $2,000 for it, especially since it's one of the earlier ones with the problem.
Since someone is probably going to ask, I'll go ahead and say that the flywheel-locating pins were not concentric with the main journals. If you're trying to align the transmission main shaft to achieve near-zero runout, that's a problem.
Where is info on the problem?
So if the older ones are no good, what are they going to do to replace the defective part now? This could be a real mess with so many new cranks out there and most are already in engines.
Scat owner Tom Lieb has posted on here before regarding his crankshafts. Maybe he will again so this issue wonít spiral out of conrol due to possible conjecture.
If I had built an engine with that issue and worked past it, I sure as heck would not pull that engine back down to get another crank.
I am glad that they are remedying the issue and have undoubtedly worked with individuals prior to this. And others, I'm sure, were disgusted by the price and yet have to take remedial efforts to make them work. At least they are acknowledging the issue and working to fix it (my assumption). My guess is, that they have or will work with owners of uninstalled cranks with this issue. However, if we want to ensure that no one enters the hobby with new parts, we need to be sure to insist that suppliers are liable for replacement of used, functioning parts, assembled by mechanics who's skills vary from one extreme to another. Frankly, any mechanic who would build an engine where the transmission shaft could not be centered, and left it offset should never be working as an engine mechanic in the first place.
I have never used one of their cranks, have no financial interest in them and am not defending them specifically. I just get a nervous twitch when someone immediately suggests a recall of this nature. My point is, that if the position suggested is taken by many people, I would not be surprised if suppliers say to hell with it and that is the end of orphan Ford manufacturing. While any sale is a good sale, I doubt that we are a major portion of their business, given that they focus on the Racing Industry.
I am hoping most people will be more circumspect on this subject, and I'll expect that they will be.
Is it possible to "work past" this issue? I think anyone with a defective crank on the shelf would want to have the problem fixed before ever putting it into an engine. These things cost a LOT of money and if they have a problem it will cost a lot more to fix. It sounds like this was a simple mistake in the machine process that should be easy to correct for future cranks. All I am asking is can the new unused crank be fixed or replaced with a new one after the problem is solved?
So where is the old/new time line? I purchased a counterbalanced T crank with model a bearing sizes and took delivery in June of '18. This crank was on order for several months so I can only assume it was manufactured around January of '18.
So is the issue that the crank flange bolts are not concentric with the shaft center line? If that is the case I would not be installing or trying to repair my new crank. No matter how accurate you try to solve the problem balance will be the issue especially at higher rpm which I plan to be obtaining with my SR Fronty head and other performance upgrades.
Tom, how about an explanation here how you are going to solve this problem, if there really is a problem, and what about the cranks that are in the field. Do we return our cranks for a replacement? Who pays the freight both ways? IF cranks have been installed who pays for the tear down and parts needed to reassemble the motor?
And they likely will work with owners of such cranks. Speculating in public does the mfr a disservice, though.
I broke my old crank about two months ago and tried to order one from SCAT only to be told of manufacturing problem had temporary stopped production.
I found a SCAT crank at one of the suppliers and I spoke to Mike about the nature of the problem. I found the new Scat crank flange was true when I tested it in the lathe and the pins in the flywheel were a somewhat tight fit into the flange. I also decided to use the floating transmission shaft just in case. The motor is currently being assembled.
Wish me well.
Rod, I sent you a PM.
Why on EARTH would ANYONE ask when their crank was manufactured, what they'd do about it, or who pays freight, etc., other than asking the supplier or manufacturer??
That question was designed for one purpose: to fuel speculation, emotion, bad feelings, and at all costs, keep this thread alive until it's pulled.
I would like info about this problem as I have installed a few Scat cranks. You can PM me if you do not want to post here. Thanks, Dan
Thanks to everyone, especially Brian. I was able to borrow a crank while Scat figures out their problem.
FYI, the ones for sale on TBay are NOT in stock. They have the same problem as we do with supply vs demand. They are just not available right now!
Scott, I suggest you read my post in its entirety before you purloin someone that has legitimate questions.
Reread my post and you will see I addressed Tom and asked him to respond. That is a simple request from a customer to a vendor. If these cranks require additional rework it was a straight forward set of questions. I am in the automotive service and parts business and have been for nearly 50 years. A vendor has the obligation to correct issues in good faith. I Know Tom and also know he is a stand up guy and has an excellent reputation. I as a customer have every right to ask my suppliers to respond pure and simple. I think it be in his best interest to respond here to alleviate any misconceptions or misunderstandings, which is why I asked Tom to respond. So Scott read my complete post and you will see I asked specific questions for the benefit of his customers that have purchased cranks I did not accuse or defame Scat. So before you jump on someone that has been there and knows the automotive parts and supply business inside and out, maybe you should understand the business as I do.
If the engines you built ran nice and smooth with no unusual resonance or vibrations, then there probably wasnít any issue with the crank. At least not an issue worth disassembling and inspecting the crank...
How much are these pins supposedly out on the new crankshafts?
We installed a scat crank in our 1912 5 years ago and it is working great no problems and we drive it like a 106 year old car 35 mph. When the crank was installed everything went together with no problem so maybe there was no issue 5 years ago Cheers from Winterpeg
Yes there has been an issue with Scat cranks and in particular the alignment dowels on the rear flange. The dowel holes were under size (drilled & not reamed to size)and in some cases out of location.
ONCE AGAIN, proper assembly and build technique would identify this problem. If you have an assembled engine with a serious issue with the crank it was not properly assembled! I have installed several Scat cranks, I am familiar with the issue and have been able to work through it.
The path I chose in dealing with the issue was not to put the message out here and slam the vendor. I chose to work with other prominent builders and deal directly with Scat and get the problem fixed. It is my understanding that on the new run of cranks coming out the issue will be rectified.
Proper Model T engine building technique, checking the transmission main shaft for run out would identify this issue. In most cases the issue was solvable, on some cranks the holes were off location and they had to be returned and replaced.
The Scat crank is a thing of beauty and it is my hope that they continue to support the hobby by producing this product.
Tim in Canada
Tim Pearson nailed it!!! I absolutely agree!!!
There isnít a time line on good or bad cranks. That is misinformation that Mike Walker posted.
Scat is not giving us a run around but working very hard to correct the issues that I have found, and have been in contact with them about.
I will also state that any issues I have had with Scat are very few in occurrences. I have found Scat to be very interested in my concerns.
As I understand one of the delays was due to defective forgings from their vendor that were not acceptable. Scat now has good forgings and the standard 4Ē stroke cranks are in the manufacturing process. As soon as that run is completed the stoker cranks will be in production. I am told that we should have plenty of cranks by Christmas.
We need to remember that our requirements for cranks is a very minor part of the overall picture and only a Car guy would invest in such an endeavor.
I like Tim, chose to deal with Scat directly, in fact we made a video showing just what problems we were concerned with. Scat reviewed the video and was on the phone with me very quickly.
No, the video is not for public viewing and please donít ask.
I heard of one and he said he would take 3000 for it if some one wants one that bad.
Since I am not an engine builder or machinist, How would I know if the crank I have on the shelf for a future build is one that can be worked with or would need replaced? If it is just a matter of reaming the holes to size it is not an issue but if they are off to start with how would that be worked out?
I am in no way condemning Scat or anyone else on this, just asking questions to find out what I will need to know when or if I call them about my crank. I plan to buy more than one in the next few years to use in my cars.
Well said Tim. Pretty much everything you said goes (went) for me too.
Look at the dowel pin holes and see if they are blue looking inside.
Question from the owner of a 3 1/2 year old Scat crank. What kind of problem or problems have been experienced by owners of the defective cranks?
I might add that I have had a specific problem since the rebuild and have not been able to find the cause. After reading this thread makes me wonder if the crank is the cause.
If you contact me off line I will try to assist you.
Bill, is this really where we want this to go? IMHO, Other than the dowel issue that has been already gone over in detail Scat has provided us a great product that serves us well.
Tim- I just sent you a PM.
"Referencing the one on eBay, I wouldn't pay $2,000 for it, especially since it's one of the earlier ones with the problem. "
"There isnít a time line on good or bad cranks. That is misinformation that Mike Walker posted. "
These two quotes are from posts above in this thread.
Mike Bender is a good friend, and I have a great respect for his Model T knowledge and have learned a lot from him. I always read what he posts here and learn from those posts, and I'm sure a lot of you do as well. So when he posted that I was spreading misinformation, I phoned him to find out why he said that. It was due to a misunderstanding, which I will explain.
Apparently what I posted was unclear, or I didn't say what I meant to say. When I said "earlier", I was referring to cranks made before their new run (soon to come) of corrected cranks, not ones made 3 or 5 years ago as opposed to ones made last year. Some others mentioned a timeline, so I can see how my meaning could be misconstrued. Some others may well have gotten that same meaning from what I posted, so I'm now trying to clear that up. I didn't intend to confuse the issue.
I post here trying to help with information, and I don't intentionally spread misinformation. I apologize for not being more clear.
As Mike B. said, the folks at Scat are working diligently to correct the problem they had in the past and hopefully will have some great products for us very soon.
Thanks for the clarification, Mike. I think it is pretty clear what you were trying to say the first time. Scat has always produced a quality product, so it is unfortunate that there was an issue with one production run. Sounds like they are doing everything they can to make it right for those that got cranks with the problem.
Instead of sitting around in your boxer shorts spinning tales on the internet, e-mail me at Tlieb@scatenterprises.com for the answers to your questions. Or just call 310-370-5501.
We sold 1/3 more cranks this year and ran out of forging that takes 4-6 months to get.
Then when we got them we were so busy I couldnít get them into production right away.
We are also in California where there is no more skilled labor. Out of 80 people we are short 7 to 10. This also impacts service on machine tools.
As far as problems with Cranks a very small number got out where the dowel pin holes were not reamed completely through which left the hole under sized and tapered. I believe we caught them all and fixed them.
Cranks are now in production. We do have a large back log and will fill oldest orders first.
A side lite we now make 2 versions of ďTĒ Rods H-Beam style with ARP Bolts or Studs. One is for the Strokers and one is for the Stock length for babbit including dippers and bushings for the pins. Nice Pieces.
Thanks for update and response Tom.
Thank you for the very professional update. I can sympathize with you in trying to find skilled labor. We are always looking for machinists both manual and CNC.
I retired recently from my day job, Machinist and what idiots they where giving me to train! Most of these guys thought it was to hard of work, they all want to stand by a machine and watch it make parts. I ran the old screw machines and setup, these new guys would wonder off while they where running parts, loose an insert and start destroying tooling on next index. Every morning I was stuck repairing the machines they destroyed through the night. The bosses would not do nothing about it, they said that is the best we are getting. I told them I am out of here first chance I get, Love retirement and never Looking Back!!
I was a machinist in a past life. NEVER walked away from a running machine. I learned on equipment that had bronze plaques on them stating that they conformed to war production standards. I learned to work within the tolerances of the machines and was able to reproduce parts within .0001". Didn't need no "stinking computers" to make identical parts. This was just as cnc was becoming the big thing.
I even learned to repair LARGE crankshafts by "metalizing" (blowing a powdered metal thru a flame) and then turning the journals. Usually very low rpm application crankshafts.
This experience helped me troubleshoot equipment issues at the nuclear generating station where I recently retired.
Tom Lieb, I for one want to thank you for making the Scat crankshaft for our T's.
I helped a little while a highly skilled and experienced T engine builder rebuilt my engine with one of your standard Scats. I've not yet run the engine (although I diligently and regularly spray fogger oil into the spark plug and manifold holes), but am looking forward to it, very much.
Again, Thank You, Tom!
A little company started here about 20 years ago making parts for aircraft. They had one machinist, then two, then three, etc. Our Excellent machinist program at the local Vo Tech turns out superb machinists, most of whom can go to work at Summit the day they get out of school. I think they now employ about 60 people. They would hire more, as they now make parts for Boeing, but many of the young people prefer to hire on to companies closer to where they grew up or in one of the myriad of small machining companies in the Bozeman and Kalispell areas.
Maybe Tom needs to come to Helena and do some recruiting.