Channel Green color sample

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Channel Green color sample
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By BRENT MIZE on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 09:06 am:

Hi Guys,
Does anyone out there have a an original 27 Touring painted with the color Channel Green?
The paint swatch shown on TCPGLOBAL.COM does not show any signs of green. I need to see what an original car looks like. If you have the paint code, that would be great too.
I have the paint codes listed in the encyclopedia section.
I don't want to buy the wrong color.
Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 10:52 am:

What did you decide to do on your dashboard?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By BRENT MIZE on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 12:45 pm:

Larry,
It will be body color, once I find the correct color.
I think it should be. The 15 millionth car's dash is body color.
Happy New Year!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 03:35 pm:

Brent,

I went to a automotive paint store about two years ago and the closest formula in his books to the "27 Ford green was a'28 Model A green. Don't get it! The paint isn't even near what the '27 Ford was. I think it was the Ditzler formula. There is a fellow on the forum that painted his pick up with a Studebaker green that is beautiful but I can't remember who it was. Very dark and very close to the Ford '27 color.

If anyone has the proper formula I would be interested because I want to repaint my '27 Touring that currently has a green body and black fenders. I need to repaint it because of the mismatch from the Ditzler formula. My hood is much lighter then the body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Skip Anderson on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 04:26 pm:

Original Name - Channel Green
Modern Name - Kewanee Green
Ditzler No. - IM 546

This info came from the Model T Ford Restoration Handbook,
Clymer Publications 1964

Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 05:28 pm:

Thank you Skip, I will look into that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 05:32 pm:

We found our 26 Tudor although painted black, was green underneath ( the firewall was the indicator here )a sample which was taking a while to get right was corrected when an old man walked into the paint shop and started chatting about the color, somehow he asked was it for a T ??? Why would you ask that question ??? anyway .... the green is not a hard color to make at all ..... as the old man said.... its black with a bit of yellow ... as simple as that ... the amount of yellow added to the black will give you a green ... small increments of the yellow will match by eye the sample you have of the original color ... its not a lot of yellow.
My thought is that if Ford was painting all cars prior to 1926 Black, then why waste the black, a simple color change with the existing paint would cover all bases, l don't know if this works for other colors too, but l am out on a limb and say it probably does !!!!!!
Hope this assists..

David.

PS - Happy New Year 2014 ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steve miller- mississauga,ontario on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 06:04 pm:

PPG in Canada told me the Ditler 546 formulation does not exist but the 1952 Lincoln #11 was the same colour (Hillcrest Green 41131). Great! I went to the paint room to mix up a sample. Formulation no longer available. Again Great! A trip to the paint store. They come up with a Jaguar colour from the mid-60's. Back to the paint room. Hooray. I'm still undecided


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 06:26 pm:

Using and electronic palette, the closest I could come to Deep Channel Green was mixing around 25% of black with 75% British racing green. At least that's what it looked like on the original cars I saw. I have often wondered if Ford used several different vendors for paint too. That might account for differing shades of paint, but that's only a guess. None of the current "accepted" shades of Channel Green look anything like the original paint that I have seen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 07:31 pm:

Fellows, be aware that British Racing Green has become a generic term for any dark green attributable to English cars. Mixing other tinters with it will not necessarily give you the colour you want.

I have had great success having original colours matched at a local paint shop, if I can provide an original sample. They record the formula they come up with and give me that to keep for later use.

What is needed is a register of original samples from extant cars and then to have these matched. It may already have been done for some colours by forum members. Do you have a volunteer to collate responses? They would be a valuable resource.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 08:15 pm:

Color matching has come a long way in the past few years. The easiest and quickest way is to take a sample to a store or workshop that has available a computer matching machine.

The human eye can only see a few colors compared to those that are available. By that I mean there has to be enough of a change in the color for the eye to detect it. Normal colors on motor vehicles ( not the fancy/metallic/pearls etc) only amount to about 270 colors from one end of the range for each color to the other.

Only some of these are usable as colors made with the wrong tinters loose their original color quickly (fading etc)

Black and yellow won't give you a green unless the black itself is a blue/black. the early black Fords were blue/black but later ones were not so its not just a matter of mixing black and yellow, and as there are several yellows which one would it be.

I have followed this question for over 40 years and I don't think there will ever be an agreement on what is correct. There are too many factors involved. Bruce McCalley (RIP) and I tried several times to get information to see if an answer was available, it always failed as owners did not answer or the colors and formulas we were given were so different to each other it was impossible to come to a conclusion as to what was right.

First numerous people claim their green sample is the one, but they are different to each others. Anyone who found a color had it matched and painted his car will argue he is right and everyone else is wrong. His car may have been repainted previously, a good percentage of them were, and some of those were stripped and repainted so what appears to be the original color may be in fact a color the owner liked better.

Maybe Ford used different greens ( or suppliers) they certainly do today and have done for over 50 years here in Australia and the same color is often different from the different suppliers and requires formulas for each. Some colors even have several formulas for the one color because there are differences even when supplied by one company.

This is why a computer reading works well, the computer looks at your color and then compares it with those on file, it can even offer suggestions as to how to then change it if you need to. Problem is what's the correct sample? If you use the color your eye won't be able to see the difference even if its a door you painted on a body previously painted which you had scanned for you new paint.

Having said that in the end one will have to choose what you think may be correct, be prepared to argue that its right if you think you need to or just do it so your Model T represents what it was - a green 1927 Model T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale L Myers on Tuesday, December 31, 2013 - 08:15 pm:

Older family members said that my 26 Tudor was a shade of green so dark that it was hard to tell it from black. The small amount of original paint on the firewall seems to confirm this.
Someone on the forum one time suggested that the old paint colors may have darkened with age so that even original paint may not now look like it did when new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 12:36 am:

Allen, British Racing Green on an MGB is not the same as British Racing green on an MG Midget and they are not the same as British Racing Green on a Jaguar XK120. In England any dark green on a sports car is British Racing Green.
I always though brown and yellow make green.?!
If you put enough green in some black to make the green barely visible you will be pretty close to correct. I think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 12:55 am:

Something I learned in second grade:

Primary colors of paint are red, yellow, and blue.

Red + Yellow = Orange
Red + Blue = Purple
Yellow + Blue = Green

Adding Black or White to any of those will give you a darker or lighter version of the same color.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 01:18 am:

Brent, About a decade ago, I bought a 27 coupe body and when I removed the gas tank from the cowl, there appeared to be fairly unfaded factory paint. Since most coupes were Channel Green, I hauled the body over to my PPG dealer (AJ Foyt Auto Paint; yeah the race car driver of year's past) and had them computer analyze the paint with their Prophet computerized system. It is a pistol shaped camera that takes a picture of the paint; then computer analyzes the color and breaks it down into a formula. I have moved within the last few months and don't have everything in place to where I can find things, but as soon as I do, if you still need it; I'll be glad to email it to you as an attachment. Since it was a non-standard color, the prophet system just called the color, 'Dark Gray Green'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 01:50 am:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1926-Ford-pg01.jpg

There are some color swatches there. I assume you looked at the MTFCI paint color sheet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester W. Lowery TN on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 03:09 am:

Brent,
My 26 tudor is dark green body and black fenders and black dash. Although I don't have the exact color I know it is very close to the dark green on the engine. I will be needing some paint this spring but like other members I will take it to PPM and have them match it. I can send you some pictures if you would like to see what the color combo looks like.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 04:02 am:

My 1930 Model A Sport Coupe was originally Kawanee Green and Elkpoint Green. The Greens on the car today were mixed from the Ditzler formulas (back in 1973, in Acrylic Lacquer) and the Kawanee green is much lighter than the original green on the car--more grey, I'd say. I suspect the original paints may have varied that much, as I've seen other cars with the same shade of Kawanee. Unfortunately I did not save any of the original paint on my car, this was just from memory--and at the time I was just out of High School, and didn't know any better! I'm only the second owner of my car, and it had been painted 4 times before--and the second paint job wasn't done that carefully, so one could take it off and look at the original color easily.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 05:23 am:

Brent, Match the green you already have because it looks awesome! I have seen the green on David Dares original 26 Tudor and although it is faded it is not a nice shade of green! The green on your Touring is beautiful! You know what looks goo because that blue on your runabout, although not factory, is fabulous! Happy New Year. Warwick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 10:17 am:

According to the Encyclopedia the 27 open cars were not offered in Channel Green. The only color options for the open cars were Phoenix Brown and Gunmetal Blue. The closed cars were offered in Highland Green, Royal Maroon or Fawn Grey.

Early 1926 cars were all black. Later 1926 open cars were black, Coupes and Tudors were Channel Green and the Fordor was Windsor Maroon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 10:27 am:

Brent,
Here is a picture of a '26 touring that I painted "commercial green". I chose that color because it was a little darker than channel green, and I just thought it would look good with the black fenders. It turned out good.
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 11:15 am:

I agree with all that David Sosnoski posted, but.... there was a time in '27 when Ford announced that any body style could be painted ANY color that Ford offered. It was very near the end of T production.
Black was always available for special order so owners could have new cars that matched their fleet that included older black cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leon Parker on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 11:41 am:

Here is a picture of a 1926 coupe we restored that is a green we picked out. I will look up the old paint can later today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Skip Anderson on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 04:29 pm:

You might want to check out an old posting on Fri. Jan. 01, 2010.
Model T Ford body paint color chart.
Ditzler was purchased by PPG Industries and all codes were converted to a new system. Interesting reading. They should have what you are looking for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 04:44 pm:

Taking into account that a DSLR ( digital camera ) wont give anywhere near the color range as the old style film version SLR, these two pics come close to show the color as it was ( buried under black paint ).





We painted the dash in a modern paint, same color- too hard to see the color in the light today, but it does look a lot better in finish, same color.

David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 04:49 pm:

Incidentally - this car was owned by both Bill Barth and Art Gahr after him.

David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 05:12 pm:

Here is a link to the January 2010 thread:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/118925.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 06:12 pm:

Brent,
Why don't you call Autocolorlibrary.com? They have done a very good job of recreating antique paint colors for old cars & carriages. You can go here and look at "Channel Green" (TCP 052) and "Commercial Green" (TCP 053):
http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1927-Ford-pg01.jpg
Yes, I know the colors on the screen are too dark to tell you anything. But what you need to do is just bite the bullet and have them send you a "color chip" of each one. Yea, that's right it costs a little money, but then you can have a painter scan the color into the computer and you are good to go. Anyone can then mix the color for you with modern paint that is much better than the paints of 100 years ago.
That's what I did on the '26 touring pictured above.
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 07:23 pm:

The color shown in David Dare's photos appears very close, if not exact, as the color that I had formulated by PPG.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 10:08 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 10:33 am:

Period ad showing Channel Green.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Micheal Crowe on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 01:04 pm:

Vegabond Green = Agrave green PPG


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