I have ordered a top kit for my 21 roadster and want to get the rest of the parts in shape for install. The top rest on the left side is completely loose from the attachment and I need a picture of how it is attached so I can decide how to fix the problem. I just don't want to remove any upholstery that I don't have to getting to the parts.
All help is appreciated.
BTW, this is a two man top and I will need some advice when I begin the install. I have searched for pictures here but most are of one man tops.
Hi: Do you have the "over the top" or "thru the panel" style. A pic would help. The over the top is a bracket inside the body, that is attached at the top belt rail/tack strip and the bottom. Then your L-Iron is attached to it for the saddle. The thru the panel type is a round rod threaded on one end that screws into a bracket inside the panel. The bracket is also attached to the belt rail/ tack strip and at the bottom. your top saddle will attaché to the round rod. The way I install the top is to have the top irons and bows on the car. I put a 1-1/2 X 3-1/2 inch block between the front bow and windshield as a spacer. Use the 3-1/2 inch for the space. I then tie the front bow down against the spacer blocks to hold the 3-1/2 inch gap. Then I install the top material pulling everything tight and no wrinkles but you do not have to make it "Fiddle String Tight" After you are done, remove the blocks and pull the front bow down to its correct position with the straps and enjoy a new tight top ... Sometimes you will have to do the final pull down in a couple stages to let everything stretch and settle. Especially if the material is cold ....
Over the top. I have felt around the side of the seat and can feel the bottom a little but cannot see anything about it.
I looked but I did not find a good photo of the body iron/brace that the top rest bolts to for the 1915-1922 runabouts/roadsters. There would be two different styles, one designed to bolt to a wooden seat frame and the other to bolt to a metal seat frame. The reproduction metal seat frame is shown at: http://www.modeltford.com/i/c/1511192l.jpg
with info about it listed at: http://www.modeltford.com/item/S122.aspx The wooden seat frame still has a metal front heel panel but the sides are wood rather than a metal channel. It varied by time as well as by which manufacture produced your body. Note the Ford Price List of body parts has the seat frame and top iron parts listed 1917-1922 for the runabouts/roadsters and not listed for the 1915-1916 ones. For the tourings there are several date ranges for different parts such as the top irons.
I have not seen one installed in a roadster so this is an initial guess that I will let someone else verify or correct. For a wooden seat frame the top rest iron would likely have a 90 degree bend at the bottom so it could be bolted to the wooden seat frame. At the top it would bolt through the body metal and the wooden tack rail. The metal seat frame part would be similar but the bottom part would not have the 90 degree bend but would be twisted to line up with the upright side of the front seat metal seat channel. Below for comparison are the top irons for a wood seat frame and a metal seat frame that the top would pivot on. Note the 90 degree bend on the wooden seat frame top iron.
Below is a 1916 touring (NOT roadster) showing how the top rest was attached on the rear metal seat frame. I believe a different top rest iron shaped to fit the roadster front seat would look similar. (Photo courtesy of Model T Haven sometime in the past. )
Detailed information on a 1915 runabout top – which should be basically the same for your 1922 runabout top see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/23098.html scroll down past the white area and the posting continues.
The dimensions for the 1915-1922 roadster tops are shown in Murray Fahnestock’s diagram. It is the sixth posting down at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/21299.html and is reposted below:
and the dimension for what it attaches to:
Hopefully someone will have a photo from a 1915-1922 without the upholster to show you a better picture. Or by looking at those photo they can say "that was right" or "that guess was wrong it really goes like..."
Hap l9l5 cut off
Thanks for the drawings and pictures Hap. The irons you show are for just behind the door and are the front pivot. The irons I am working with are the ones at the rear of the tub and have the L irons with the saddle for the top to rest on when down. The inner iron will have a round end where the L shaped iron bolts. The irons at the rear of the touring would be similar and that picture helps but is kind of hard to see.
Here are some pics of the top saddle bracket. The top of the bracket will attach with two 1/4 inch carrage bolts thru your tack strip and this bracket. The nuts are on the inside. . Due to body panels being mis-matched over the years you could have the later belt rail style of wood at the top, but this bracket will attach the same way with either style. The bottom of the bracket will attach to the seat frame metal with a rivet or bolt I have seen them both ways. Early cars may have had a wood piece instead of the metal seat frame. Still attaches in the same place. More than likely the nuts have came off the 1/4 inch bolts at the top. You will have to loosen the uphoulstery at that point and tighten or replace the nuts. Worst case will be your tack strip and sheet metal at the top is torn or broken. That would make for a harder fix. You may be able to see the bottom of the bracket. Depends on how the uphoulstery is installed. Its no big deal to take the uphoulstery loose and then re-attach it later. Just be carefull and take your time. Good luck ...
the twist is supposed to be at the bottom. It is not bent ...
Thanks Donnie, I just felt around the seat frame and found the end of the bracket. If it was riveted, the rivet is gone.If it was bolted as the other side is, the bolt and nut are gone. I don't know what the top has going but at the very least, the nuts are gone and I suspect the bolts are also. I think I can just put a 1/4-20 carriage bolt in the bottom by pulling the seat upholstery out and put it in. The top is different since the trim strip and the upholstery will have to be released for access but still, not a big job. Thanks for all the help from everyone.
OK, I lifted the upholstery under the seat cushion and felt around to the iron. I also looked in the corner and found the original pan head screw 1/4-20" thread. I re-installed it in the pan and through the iron and secured it with a new hex nut. Tomorrow I will figure out what the deal is with the top and those bolts. The pictures were a tremendous help. Thanks.
Fixed this today. Loosened the seat covering at the corner around the iron and found the bolts were totally gone. The sheet metal is perfect and the wood good so, I replaced the bolts and nuts and renailed the covering and you can't tell it was ever disturbed. Thanks for all the help and pictures, I could have done it without them but it would have not been nearly as easy.
Glad to hear it was a easy fix.