Continued from the 2013 thread “New Model N Project”

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Continued from the 2013 thread “New Model N Project”
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 11:21 am:

Continued from the thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/411140.html?1388556760

Remember last year we were left with several “cliff hangers” – from Ned Protexter’s new Model N Runabout project he had acquired. [Ok most folks were still able to sleep without knowing the answers.]



Note how the new owner appears very happy. Old Fords can do wonders for your health....


I wanted to put a connection from that 2013 posting to the 2014 forum so it could easily be continued and later traced back.

Ned commented/asked, “Also, the exhaust manifold has the fitting to attach the earlier oiler too. Did they use this same oiler after going to the mechanical oiler?” Answer: Yes – Ford continued to supply the less expensive Force Feed oiler on the Model N Runabout for all three years of production. In the 1907 and 1908 price list of parts is it listed for $10 including the pipes and connections part number 930. While the 1907 style McCord mechanical oiler part number 1225 is listed for $15 in the 1907 Price List of Parts but it is NOT listed as a complete unit in the 1908 book – but only repair parts are listed for the 1907 style. The 1908 style McCord mechanical oiler is listed only in the 1908 Price List of Parts and again it is listed for $15. Note your engine has the 1908 style McCord oiler mounted on it.

Below is a 1907 McCord Mechanical Oiler (Hap's Oct 1907 Model S Runabout - has the wrong oil cap):



Below is a 1908 McCord Mechanical Oiler (Trent's 1908 Model S Roadster):



To be continued….

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 12:44 pm:

Hap (and others) -- I just want to clear something up. Ned didn't actually say so, but the N belongs to Ned's Dad (Dan) shown with the big grin in the picture above. Ned said Dan bought it for a birthday gift for himself but didn't mention him by name. Dan is the quiet type, so Ned does most of the talking. :-) They are a great couple of guys, and they work on these projects together when Ned is not away at school.

I met them both while on the MTFCI 50th anniversary tour in Clear Lake, IA in 2006. We shared a table at dinner one evening. Dan sat down and introduced himself while Ned was still filling his plate. I had seen Ned's posts on the Forum many times and considered him to be one of the most knowledgeable Forum members. (I still do.) Anyway, I recognized the last name and asked Dan whether he was related to Ned. He said yes, Ned was his son. You could have knocked me over with a feather when Ned joined us, because he was only 16 years old!

Dan and Ned make a great father-son team, and I'm really tickled for them that they have this "new" project. I have no doubt that it will be a much-admired, wonderful automobile again in the near future. Good on ya, Guys!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Morsher on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 01:24 pm:

Thanks Mike. Dan and Ned, congrats on a great project, nothing better than working with your dad on something like that. Again, the Early Ford Register is a bargain at 10/year and a tremendous resource for working on your new treasure. The award winning newsletter has free want ads and lots of listings for available N parts, both original and reproduction.There are dozens of. N owners listed and they are all very sharing with info. Have fun!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Morsher on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 05:23 pm:

I just thought of something else. I was looking at the pictures you posted on the EFR site, and noticed your transmission frame is cracked. if the trans frame is original to the car, they sometimes have the engine number stamped on the ear that bolts to the frame. re/ the frame itself, these are often repairable, but if not, Floyd Jaehnert makes a wonderful reproduction along with many other parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Barry Fowler - Eagle River, Alaska on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 05:35 pm:

I checked my N, made in December 1906 (as best I can tell) and it does not have any fitting for an oil line at the front of the engine. Also, there are no holes drilled in the frame for running board brackets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 06:08 pm:

Thanks Barry. Evidently our front grease cup was added at some point. I have seen at least one other N (unless it was an S/R crankcase) that had a front tap. Thanks for checking,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 06:51 pm:

Barry,

Thank you for checking. It is another great data point for us. With a single data point we cannot really establish a trend but with more of them we can usually do a better job of figuring out how things were done.

Mike,

Thanks for the explanation that Dan is Ned's Dad and they will be working on Dan’s Model N together. I kept trying to figure that out – but I decided I didn’t need to know who Dan was as I was looking at the photos and not trying to purchase the car.

The Early Ford Registry sent out an update today which I also just read that included the news that Ned has been elected as one of the new Early Ford Registry Board members. And that he and his Dad would be working on the newly acquired Model N. So I am fairly sure he knows about the group. I think our hobby will be in great hands with folks like Ned being involved. [Congratulations Ned!]

Now if we could just get the old folks like me to get a little more organized, I would finish that posting I started before I was interrupted by the Rose Bowl parade.

Rob,

I’m not sure why your N #3 has the threaded hole for an oil line at the front of your engine. The front plate may have been replaced or the owner may have decided to add the additional oil location. Note, I believe Trent has a better idea than using a grease cup. He installed one of the early glass style oilers. It can be adjusted to provide 1 drop every so often or several drops every so often and it can be turned off. Several companies made them for steam engines, gas engines etc.



Above is from Trent's photo from his web page.
Below is one of many such oilers on ebay.



I would be hesitant to use grease at the front of the crankshaft. But it may turn out that since Ford did not put any lubrication line there on the Model Ns that it is still works fine with no additional oil supply, with the grease cup, or with a small supply of oil.

Hopefully someone who understands engines better can let us know if the grease cup should not be turned down but just left to fill the hole. Or if it may help put a damn up so the engine leaks less oil? Or if the grease provides a good lubricant. But I would think it is way to thick of a lubricant for that area.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Morsher on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 08:08 pm:

I would certainly think oil would be better than grease at that location. Usually the problem is keeping oil in at the front seal, not getting oil in. There are dope cups that do not take grease, but are used with a felt wick., you take the cap off and fill up with heavy oil, and then it is slowly applied to th revolving shaft. What I'm saying is they look like a grease cup but are for oiling purposes. If I had a N without the tapped front cover, I sure wouldn't worry about it. If I had an engine with the hole, I sure would take advantage of it like Trent did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 11:54 pm:

Knock on wood, it's worked well so far. It appears by the condition of our car when we bought it, and knowing that it didn't run since at least 1947, that it had very little wear. Also, everything in the black and white photo, down to the horn, appear to have been unmolested until we picked up the N.

I would guess the modifications to our car were made up to and through 1909 (the horn has a 1909 patent date, and looks to be the same horn on the car in the 1925 photo), and then my guess is the car "languished" until the photo was taken at a Ford dealership in 1925.

As Hap is aware (his excellent research helped find the information) this N was featured in a news article in 1925, and the story said it was "Henry Ford's third four cylinder car" (obviously unaware of the Model B). Early features (such as the "bent" axle supports, non tapered muffler, brake clevis levers turned down on the rear brakes and "3") seem to corroborate the story (my opinion).

Unfortunately, we have no other information about the car between 1925 and 1947.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ned Protexter on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 08:45 pm:

Thanks for all of the kind words Mike. I'm done with school now so I can work on cars now after work if I have time. I don't get to work I'm the N but I have my own problem...I mean project.



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