1917 Model T Ford touring car SIDE LANTERN Brackets please help!!!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 1917 Model T Ford touring car SIDE LANTERN Brackets please help!!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 06:21 pm:

Hello,
I am looking for lantern brackets for a Model T Ford Touring car from 1917. I have checked snyders and langs and neither have the part. All i need is the part that atttaches the lantern to the windshield frame. This is mind boggling because I simply cannot find this part anywhere! Please help!

Thank you


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 06:36 pm:

The cowl lamp brackets would have been integral to the windshield frame support brackets in '17.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 06:36 pm:

The cowl lamp mounts to the windshield bracket. There is no separate part.

You might have the later windshield bracket, or perhaps the whole car is later than 1918. The later style windshield bracket came along in 1919.

In any case lets see some pictures so we can help you to know what you need.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 06:51 pm:

Im trying to post pictures for you although it seems like the photo upload isnt working well


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 06:52 pm:

Brain Graham:

I have some give me a call or private email. By the way real early 17 light brackets were riveted to the windshield frame.

17 light brackets


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 06:52 pm:

Your side light brackets should be part of the windshield frame. If your windshield frame does not have the "ears" for the sidelight, you probably have 1919 and later windshield brackets for starter equipped cars. If you have the later style brackets, you will have to change out the lower part of your windshield frame. There are no aftermarket style add-on brackets for the 15-22 style windshield that I am aware of. You will need to find an original pair of windshield brackets. Are you sure your car is not a 1919 or later.?? If you need a pic of the bracket I will find a bracket and post one for you. A pic of your car and windshield area will help us know what you are looking for. ..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 06:59 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 07:05 pm:

The picture is huge I apologize, but thats my dad with the best windshield photo i can get. We have the original tags that says PENNA 1917 and some numbers. So we are pretty sure its a 1917. Also you see a bed. my late grandfather removed the back seat and replaced with the bed. But there are hinges on the front seat that show it was a touring car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 07:17 pm:

Here is a 17 with upgraded fenders and radiator apron, still has correct side lamps if this helps. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 07:27 pm:

okay, so what year do you think this is?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 07:47 pm:

We need to know more. Does it have a dash/instrument board. Is it a starter car, the engine #. How wide is the arm rest metal end cap, the type of running board brackets (channel or cast) round or oval gas tank, Type of springs (taper or clipped leaf) Is the front radius rod above or below the axle.? That should do for a start.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 08:14 pm:

Hopefully I will have that for you by the weekend at least.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 08:18 pm:

Brian:

Assuming your car is not a "put-together" and the motor is original to the car, the motor serial number should suffice to date the car.

Based on what I see in the above photo and the photos I pulled from one of your earlier posts, the following on your car are not indicative of 1917:

1918 or later square felloe wheels
1918 or later horn button (need more detail - 1918 or later if combo horn/light switch for non-starter car, 1919 or later if horn button only for starter car)
1919 or later windshield brackets
1920 or later (Fordite) steering wheel

1

2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 08:35 pm:

Erik,

Originality is something we like but do not worry about. I put a klaxon horn in it that is entirely inaccurate to the car. Also put in an Alternator, yanked the magneto and yes the horn button is something purchased from snyders for "any model t" steering wheel. The car itself is indeed original though. My pap found it in an apple orchard in about 1950. It ran but did not look like this. My dad knows the most about the car, sadly his computer skills are 2nd grade at best.

But since you are saying that the windshield is something from 1919....and if we were willing to for-go originality, could we find some kind of brackets for the lanterns for this windshield?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 08:36 pm:

Donnie,

My mom is currently teaching my dad how to use this site and I am hoping that at some point in the next few days those questions you asked will be answered.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 09:09 pm:

Brian: I aggree that original, or correct, or whatever really does not matter to alot of us. But to some it does. To each there own. But by identifying all the bits and pieces you have, it will at least let you know more about your car. Myself, I just like trying to figure it all out. Thats the fun of it for me. Since you say your motor has a alternator on it. That guarantees it to be a 1919 or later engine. Unless your alternator is belt driven. If you think about it. When your pap found it in about 1950 it was already an antique car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 09:25 pm:

none of this talk matters! if you want kerosene cowl lights, live it up!! you just need the different mounting bracket for the windshield, thats it. same windshield, just if you bought a starter (electric car) you got no cowl lights. if you bought a cheeper non starter car you did. many people like them as it "fits the picture" of a model t. live it up and get some different brackets, they are every where, and actually yours are more rare. have fun with your model t what ever year you want to call it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 09:28 pm:

Brian:

These reproductions are available for 1923-25.

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/911

I don't know if they will work for 1919 through 1922 non-starter car windshields. Otherwise, you can get original 1917 - 1919 windshield brackets with the built in lamp brackets or find an original pair of 1920-22 forged sidelight brackets that attach to the windshield brackets.

I know I am being forward, but you should really determine what year car you have have based on the actual car itself, not by guessing because just there is a 1917 license plate with it.

Doing so will save you a lot of headaches in the long run when when making repairs and locating parts.

What is the serial number on the motor?

Regarding 1917 Fords:

I have an unrestored 1917 roadster (May serial number) and its history can be traced back to the original owner (I am the third owner). My dad has a 1917 touring (June serial number) that he bought in unrestored condition from the original family in 1949. See photos below:

1

2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 09:48 pm:

When you say starter...what do you mean? Because to start this car, you have to choke it a couple times then crank it and then run to the wheel and pull the (spark) or advance down and with throttle to start it.


And it sometimes takes the life out of you to crank that mother.

Also yes the alternator is belt driven. The alternator was bought to power the lights. tail lights etc. cuz the magneto box coils do not exist anymore. we just run a 12 volt battery to a switch that gives the coil juice to crank the old engine and then go!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 09:50 pm:

Also, tell me where to find that serial number. I mean exactly where to find it. based on the photo of the engine in this post


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 09:58 pm:

The engine serial number is located just above the water inlet on the left side of the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 09:59 pm:

if you hand crank the car, its a non starter car and should have the lights you want. serial # is on the drivers side of engine on the flat spot just above the water inlet from the radiator. is there a one inch hole in the floor near the drivers seat? that would have been the starter button when new, if it was an electric car. probably some where in its life some one replaced a broken windshield with whatever they could find cheep. send dave huson a message he will have a bucket full of brackets i'm sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, January 03, 2014 - 12:06 am:

Here is a picture of 1917 windshield bracket with the integral cowl lamp mount.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Friday, January 03, 2014 - 12:13 am:

Brian Craham:

I have the exact windshield post with the side light brackets that Royce pictured. Give me a call at 303-774-9246 if you are interested.

picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Friday, January 03, 2014 - 09:15 am:

Brian, sounds like it may be a non starter. Still not sure yet. Pictures will really help. Please do not think anyone here is try to "pick your car apart" Truly original Model Ts almost do not exist. They are very rare. These cars are almost 100 yrs old or older. Since almost every part or unit from a 1909 will fit a 1927 No telling what was changed just to keep them running for all those years. But by identifying what you have it will make it a lot easier to find parts later. Send more info as you find it ... have fun and stay warm ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Friday, January 03, 2014 - 09:53 am:

also, notice in the picture from royce the non starter car had no dash, and the switch is on the coil box. that car would not have a hole in the metal part of the floor under the driver near the seat. also as allready stated these things are close to 100 and much has been changed since the day it left the factory. those brackets are common, are you with a club? ask some members or call dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Saturday, January 11, 2014 - 05:04 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Saturday, January 11, 2014 - 05:07 pm:

my dad finally was able to take these and then send me the pics and it basically took some time. You can see....we are anything from near authentic. as there is a more modern alt and a horn that is not original at all. But we dont care. Just want to get the lanterns on! And you can see on the front that there is a crank. The only way I know how to start it without the crank is to run it down the hill and start it that way. Please suggestions...comments.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Saturday, January 11, 2014 - 07:34 pm:

Brian Graham:

I just sold my last pair of brackets that you need BUT you can order them in from Langs Page 82 number 3655AS.

picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Saturday, January 11, 2014 - 07:47 pm:

Lots of modifications there, alternator, horn and ignition system. There is no rain gutter on top of the firewall which might mean the car is a 1917 or 1918. The engine number is behind the horn. Could you remove it an have a look?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 12:05 am:

Oh we have a switch on it for sure. For the battery. But it still has to be cranked to start it. Also, My dad is or will be checking on the serial number as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 12:08 am:

But, it basically looks like a 17 or 18 though right? Appreciate the info


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 12:19 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 12:19 am:

I found them on an old post! This is exactly it I do believe! Just where do I get something exactly like this?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 12:28 am:

To the casual observer, 1917 through 1922 Fords look alike.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 12:46 am:

I will check,I may have a set.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 01:02 am:

Brian Graham:

I have several pairs of them, email me at modelt1912@msn.com.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 01:02 am:

Brian Graham:

I have several pairs of them, email me at modelt1912@msn.com.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 08:51 pm:

Serial number for T

My dad found these numbers :

227004 - we think this is the serial number
I-W
2
10-15


And from this chart it looks like we are indeed correct in believe that it is a 1917.:


1917 Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
Start #
End # 1614517
1679591 1679592
1739906 1739907
1812013 1812014
1888043 1888044
1968619 1968620
2044131 2044132
2113501 2113502
2162888 2162889
2231009 2231010
2310409 2310410
2383951 2383952
2449179


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 08:53 pm:

Dave, can you send a picture of the one's you have to bggraham83@yahoo.com or just put them on here. My dad wants to see what you've got.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 10:16 pm:

The serial number you provided is one digit short for the range of serial numbers for which you are making the comparison.

If the motor actually has that number, it is from March 1913.

Your chart is for the 1917 calendar year (January through December).

The 1917 model year was August 1916 through July 1917.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 05:52 am:

Brian, I see where folks are referring to your Model T as a "non-starter" car and your plea of 2 January concerning engine starting procedures hasn't been addressed. Ford introduced an electric starter in the '19 model year. This would have a different transmission cover and magneto field coil. The starter would be attached to the front left side of your transmission cover with the bendix drive and cover on the aft side. This enabled drivers to start the Model T from the driver's seat by simply setting the spark and gas and chokeing the carb then using the heel to press down on a starter button in the 1" hole in the seat riser that Clayton referred to. This was a wonderful improvement back in the day and the starter spun the engine over just a little faster than a healthy man could crank. Your 12 volt battery would really crank the engine over fast . . . . if you had an electric starter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 08:52 pm:

<http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm>


Looks like a 1917 according to this link.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 08:54 pm:

Actually, no, you are indeed correct. I will double check as to make sure that is indeed the full number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 11:26 am:

Just spoke to my dad it is actually 2274004 for the serial number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 02:07 pm:

2274004 corresponds to Ocotober 17, 1917. That means that the motor falls under the 1918 model year.

If your car is not a "put-together" and the engine is original to the car, then you have a 1918 Model T Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 03:15 pm:

That's really cool to know. Why does the licence plate say 1917 though? Or is it made like cars today and come out a year early like getting a 2015 in 2014?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 03:31 pm:

Very much like today where the new model comes out late summer/early fall. However, be aware that model years are determined by the manufacturer. In the case of Model T Fords, the model years varied.

Regarding the license plate: if the car was registered in 1917, it would have been registered with a 1917 license plate. However, do you know for a fact that the license plate that you have in your possession was originally registered to your car? Or is the plate something that a prior owner picked up sometime in the last 97 years? Most people are not fortunate enough to have the original license plate that was registered to their car when it was new.

Do you know the history of your car?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 05:09 pm:

Brian -- As was noted above, the model year began during the year before (as it still does). Ford's model years in the Model T era usually began on August 1st. But if you bought an '18 car during the latter part of '17, it would have been titled as a '17. The revenue offices didn't pay any attention to model years back then, just the calendar year. That's why so many Model T's have a date on their title which does not correspond to the model year of the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 05:14 pm:

Basically Dave Huson has posted 3 times he has what you need. Stop FFFFing around and call him. Plain and simple.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 02:39 pm:

I have actually emailed him 3 or 4 times already and have not received an answer. I could call but I feel that is too formal.

Yeah it was my paps dads car or my great grandad. The platr has to go with the car though because of what was noted. I appreciate the feedback. One more question. My dad has side mirriors on the car. Were these even on a model t from 1917/18?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 05:56 pm:

Outside mirrors were aftermarket, available for any year car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 10:33 pm:

Brian,
Call Dave. He's a great guy and would appreciate the call.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 10:52 pm:

Brian:

I have tried to answer your emails but not having any success. I have the large side light brackets like you picture but I still say that it would be a lot easier for you to use the ones that Langs sells as I posted above. All you would have to do is remove the two bolts on the bottom of the window post and install the 3655AS. Then you replaced the bolts and your good to go.
Call me at 303-774-9246 if you need any more information. I had a pair of the 3655AS but sold them just the other day. I do have one 3655AS but only one would not do you any good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Graham on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 07:01 pm:

Thank you!


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