Illustrations from Coupelet to Coupe

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Illustrations from Coupelet to Coupe
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 10:21 am:

Here I have illustrated what I think are the changes for Coupelet models during the years 1915 to Coupé1919.
I would like to correct for where I might be wrong in my assertions.
My early flated Top has a rear roof that is similar to Centerdoor.

I Hills will divide 1915, 1916 "Convertible Coupelet.
And divide the 1917-1918 "covered Coupelet" .....?
(1917 "rounded top")
(1918 "flated Top")1915 Model T Coupelet1916 Model T Coupelet1917 Model T Coupelet1918 Model T Coupelet1919 Model T Coupé


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 10:34 am:

Very interesting!
I really like those early coupes/coupelets.
A neighbor just bought a '22 coupe off Epay.
It's a really nice car.
Now I have to teach him to drive it.


k


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 10:38 am:

Congratulations nice car, drive carefully and take care of it.

Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 01:34 pm:

Very nice drawings Ake.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 02:20 pm:

Why are the rear fenders on the 15 couplet straight out the back? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 03:49 pm:

Bud -- they were using up leftover '14 fenders on the cars in the first two drawings. :-)

Ake -- Those drawings are very nice. One small item, the top door hinge on the convertible '17 should be like the '15 and '16 ones. And as Bud said, the rear fenders on the 15's should be curved. The porthole windows in the '16 and '17 convertibles are placed a little high. They are located in the center of the main top iron, which is indicated by a line in your drawings. (Okay, that's 3 small items, not one) :-) Otherwise, they are great! What a lot of work it must have been to produce those.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 03:54 pm:

It's pretty bad when the guy doing the critiquing can't get it right. When I mentioned the "convertible '17" I meant the round-topped one, shown just below the convertible one in your drawings. Sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 03:55 pm:

Very nice drawings Ake. Thanks for sharing them.

I take from the progression of the drawings that the term "Coupelet" was dropped in 1918 and in 1919 the term "Coupe" was used. I don't see any difference in size or major body changes in the car just differences in the tops from convertible to hard top. Why the change in description or model name? Does anyone know? I have a 1922 Coupe and I am just wondering.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Watson -Florence,Colorado on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 05:31 pm:

Ake,
Thank you for taking the time to draw these and for sharing with the rest of us.
It reminds us of our First Model T a 1923 Coupe.
If you ever want to continue your Coupe Drawings for other years please don't forget the '23

Thanks again
-Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 03:23 am:

Great comments I want these to be right one day.

Thanks Rich, but this is only line drawing.

Mike, it is a miss, there is more to be adjusted.

And Dennis Ford's designation in 1918 was Coupelet.
Maybe they should call it the hardtop coupe.

Don, I will continue with more ....

The top of the 1918 model is the one I have, this configuration
the rear upper portion of the roof, I have not seen before, a mystery that even Bruce Mc Calley
had not been solved either.
Does anyone know who continues with Bruce's life work?

I would be glad if anyone has or knows of more of these, renovated or unrenovated, please mail to me.

ake.osterdahl @ telia.com

Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 04:05 am:

When did the Coupelet become the Coupe?

Coupelet Now Called Coupe

Starting at once, our model formerly
known as “Coupelet” will on all occasions
be referred to as the “Coupe” (pronounced
Koo-pay).


- page 3
Ford Times Memorial Issue,
Dec 1917 – Jan 1918


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 04:31 am:

Thanks for that John
...but a have not this Ford Times

Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 03:26 pm:

If coupe is pronounced "koo-pay"

Is coupelet pronounces "koo-pa-lay"

???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 04:38 pm:

Keith -- I think it depends upon where you're from. The Canadians and folks near them pronounce it coo-pa-lay, as a French-speaking person would do. A lot of left-coasters do that too, but I don't know why. To me, that sounds too much like Chevrolet, so I pronounce it as most Southern folks do, which is coop-let. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 05:03 pm:

Linguistics is almost as interesting a study as the model T Ford!

Thank you very much, Ake! I and many others appreciate the studying and knowledge you have added about the coupelets and coupes. Hap T is one of several people trying to carry on Bruce's work. I am sure he watches your posts closely and copies and catalogs for future reference. You are pretty much our coupelet expert now.

I look forward to more updates on your restoration of your coupelet.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 09:28 pm:

For Ake,

Great line drawings -- thank you for sharing them. I’m still very slowing trying to better understand what is different on your Coupelet from a standard 1918 Coupelet. For example what is the difference between your body and the 1918 flat top Coupelet shown on pages 248 - 251 of Bruce McCallay's book "Model T Ford" [available from the club at: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/model-t-ford-the -car-that-changed-the-world and also available on CD see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/333725.html?1357665853 ]. I have probably missed one or more discussions that addressed the differences. I reviewed again the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/375155.html I have not had the privilege to look at a Coupelet up close nor one that did not have the upholstery/top material on it. Reviewing the posting I believe you are trying to figure out why your 1918 Coupelet has the metal at the top of the roof bent over the wood rather than stopping without bending over. And why one metal panel is a little longer or shorter than some other 1918 Coupelets. Is that correct?

For John,

Would you please confirm if the Dec 1917 – Jan 1908 Ford Times Memorial Issue is a USA, UK, CA or other Ford Times?

For Wayne,

Yes, many of us want to see Bruce’s work to continue to be updated. And we are very slowly trying to figure out the best way to proceed. In the meantime, yes we are continuing to gather data and look at puzzle pieces to try and better understand how Ford produced the cars or how Ford most likely produced the cars. I will gladly support others in their efforts if someone else has a plan or vision for updating the information Bruce so faithfully compiled and so freely shared. I keep waiting for me to get caught up so I can work more on that effort.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 09:45 pm:

Hap - I can probably scan the item for you if you need it. Going from memory, while at work (work has finally quietened down) it was a message from HF himself, and the Ford Times is (almost certainly) the Canadian edition.

For all with an interest in linguistics. I am certainly no expert but many motoring words do come from the French - garage, sedan, chauffeur, etc - and coupe. Coupe should have a circumflex over the e, meaning it is pronounced a! It is commonly pronounced outside Europe as Coop (as in where you keep the chickens) but the chickens should not be in the Koo-pay!!

John Stokes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 02:58 am:

Hap thanks for your knowledge
I have ... " The Car That Changed The World" and others. but has not the latest edition , which number does it have? and distinguishes it from the first, it has well been new findings .
I have a theory about my rounded rear roof, it resembles the "Centerdoor" but has a more rectangular rear window . If I got it right, so is Coupelet and Centerdoor made ​​by The Fisher Body Co. . I think this has a connection with each other.
I have noticed that my rear body panels have belonged to each other, then age / patina consistent with each other.

"September 10 Acc . 78, Ford Archives
Coupelet bodies to have the gas tank in rear deck . New design ( rectangular instead of oval cross-section ) of Touring top sockets and bows" .

Here it says that the gas tank was rectangular, but this is wrong ? it came later!
However , it was moved to the turtle deck is for me right.

Thus, 10 September 1917 noted that , my engine 2211929 (22 Sept) shows that it is one of the first " flated top" Coupelet . Therefore my thesis for my claims .

Best wishes Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 03:01 am:

In Sweden we say Coupee and Couplee
French pronunciation

Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 11:09 am:

Ake -- I believe the reference to the "New design (rectangular instead of oval cross-section)" refers to the top sockets, not to the gas tank. I also believe that your car should have the round tank mounted in the turtle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 12:38 pm:

Mike, Yes you got that right, but the tank was moved back into the turtle deck, which I have in my.

Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 01:21 pm:

I note that they were to get the green, there was to get other colors too?
Anyone know anything about this?

  FORD FACTORY LETTER
FROM: Ford Motor Company, Detroit Office
February 20, 1919
General Letter No. 347
CLOSED BODY PAINTING

Kindly note General information and changes to date:
As closed bodies are now being painted black, instead of green as heretofore, overpriced carmine striped, it Becomes imperative That the branches prepare to repair bodysuits When needed According To the new color. It incidental charges That someone in your paintshop, accustomed to the method of striping, pray assigned to this work, as this section of bodypainting is something new for branches to contend with. Striping pencils and carmine paint for striping will be furnished to you for this purpose upon receipt of request for same.

Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 06:14 pm:

Ake -- The matter of colored bodies for the 1915-'18 closed cars is still being researched. The term "closed cars" apparently applies to the Sedan, Coupelet, and Town Car. Even though the Town Cars and some Coupelets had convertible tops, I believe they were lumped together with the sedan as being "closed" because they had glass windows instead of side curtains. (That's just a guess, but it's all I've been able to come up with so far.)

There are known original 1915 closed cars in both black and blue body colors, and there are known original 1916-18 closed cars in both black and green body colors. Nearly 100 years after the fact, the paints are faded, and their original shade is difficult to determine. But one might assume that the blue and green colors were similar to the blue and green colors used on earlier Fords from 1910 to 1913. Those colors were very dark, nearly black by all accounts. The closed car bodies were furnished to Ford by body companies such as Fisher, already painted, upholstered, and ready to bolt onto a Ford chassis at the assembly plant.

Ford's "Price List of Body Parts" includes interior fabric used for repairs of the headliner and upper body in 3 colors: gray, blue, and green. One might presume that these fabric colors would have coordinated with exterior body colors of black, blue, and green. The blue and gray cloth are specified for use in the 1915 closed cars, while the gray and green cloth are specified for 1916-18 closed cars.

Several of us are still searching for concrete evidence that the closed cars left the assembly plants with body colors other than black, but that proof in the form of a paper trail has been very difficult to locate. The nearest we have come so far is the factory letter you posted above, the parts lists' mentions of the colored fabrics, and of course the existing original cars and bodies which are not black. Many of us are convinced that closed cars were offered in blue and green, as well as black, but others still are skeptical.

As has been the case with many other details of the Model T's production, I believe that such proof eventually will be found. But until then, the issue of colored bodies on '15-'18 closed cars is still a matter of conjecture. I intend to paint my '15 Coupelet body Midnight Blue, and I believe you would be correct to paint yours a very dark green, or black, as you wish. Others might disagree with us, but we have to start somewhere. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 06:34 pm:

The body styles don't look like they changed much from 1918 to 1922. Looking at your picture the body looks like my '22. I know the door handle and removable door pillar are different. My fuel tank is square not round and is located in the turtle deck but the body look very much the same.


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