What do you guys think about the Roller Thrust versus the bronze Thrust Washers ? I understand the bronze washers come oversized and may or may not need to be milled to the correct thickness. Would the Accessory Roller Washers be easier to install as i dont own a mill or lathe.
Roller thrust washer will not hold up unless your T is a trailer queen. There is not enough surface area to handle the thrust.
Guess I need to take them out of my Model T's that have lots and lots of miles on them. Wouldn't want a part that put me into the trailer "queen crowd"
Have used those roller thrust on two axles, took this one apart after 6,000 miles, and appeared to have some damage to the hard roller surfaces, as there was scrapes and pitting, perhaps the banging loads, as these are placed with thick small inner washers, and you have to just hope the stack up tolerances work to get the correct ring and pinion clearance.
When using new parts, these roller seem to work, new parts meaning new ring gear and new pinion, and carriers that are real good too.
Now I just use the thick bronze washers always, they are easy to thin down, usually you only have to thin one side. I use a belt sander, its flat surface allows me to get the thrust washer even and flat. With the bronze thrust there is just one part, with that roller thrust, lots of little needle bearing parts that can separate, roll out of shape, and spew pieces into the rear axle. Prefer to stick with Ford design unless the new replacement part has sufficient design improvement, testing, and quality.
Never thought about the belt sander..i have one of those. My ring gear and pinion are real good but not new...better stick with the bronze washers.
when new the rollers might be less resistance and so forth bu to many moveing parts to fall to peices and make a big mess
I have been using the rollers in one car for ten years and they don't show any wear, my 24 had them but they were locked and would not roll, maybe because the person who assembled it before i bought it had put everything together with an impact wrench,what a mess, rounded heads, stripped threads and so on.
Rick...sound like the same guy worked on my Touring ! Removed the driveshaft and instead of using a cotter key to hold the pinion gear some nut took a cold chisle and cut into the end of the shaft at each slot on the castle nut ! He also used some sort of steel bushing in place of the bronze bushing at the ujoint ! Guess I'll be getting another shaft !
Related question: The guy who built my '15 speedster passed away - I bought it from the estate. It seems to be well put together, but I have very little detailed information. Is there a way to peek in to the rear end through the oil fill hole (maybe with a borescope) and see what I have for thrust washers? What exactly am I looking for. Obviously I'd like to avoid tearing it all apart if I can avoid it.
random orbit sander works really well too. and its easier to maintain constant contact with the face of the washer.
Chris, there really isnt a way to check and see without tearing it apart :/ sorry for the bad news. If you had a camera on a flexable shaft or something you might have half a shot at seeing it but even then you would only be looking at the edge of the thrust washer and its gonna be a dark hole in there. You might be able to get one of those telescoping mirrors and look inside but its really going to be difficult. If you do decide to take it apart, bore you a drain plug in the bottom of the pumpkin. makes it a lot easier to replace the oil later down the road!
Nathan....Id say the orbit sander would work better...thanks.
Gary - I can't stress the importance of "knowing for sure" about the thrust washer enough.
I waffled around for about a year and this is what I found when finally opened things up.
I was minutes from disaster.
The left one (passenger side) was doing nothing and the right one was toast - burnt toast
I use a micrometer on them and found that the old passenger's side washer was the same thickness as the new one and the driver's side was about 0.005 thinner.
I crossed my fingers and put them in without any surfacing and everything is OK.
All most forgot - I also found that pins holding the mating surface had broken off and needed to be replaced.
It was a simple fix.
Thanks Fred....i bought new bronze washers and have replaced the pins. Gotta get new thrust plates too.
Chris - You've probably read the many threads on this forum regarding thrust washer replacement. As Fred (and many others including me) have found, often on rear-ends that have not been rebuilt, the pins are either so worn they aren't holding the steel washers in place, or are sheared off altogether. And as others have noted, you really need to know what condition it's in for safety sake. While apart, you'll be able to check each part for excessive wear and replace as needed. I'd recommend getting the rear axle restoration book by Glen Chaffin from the MTFCA store for excellent step by step procedures. Good luck!
all of the pins in my rear end needed to be replaced. also, it was clear that the car had snapped an axle in the not so distant past and when they replaced it and the washer they just put a new washer in the side with the bad axle and left the old one in there. needless to say the new one was very thick and strong while the other was paper thin and only needed a slight tap on my workbench before it was in pieces. Having unequal thrust washers lead to ungodly wear on my ring and pinion. I know this seems like a HUGE job, but find a T guy close by and tackle it one saturday. If everything else in it is good then it is a cheap fix. even if you have to replace everything it is a job you can get done in a day! also, i suggest looking into the funprojects bearing kit! make sure you get the right one!
Yeah i hear that bearing kit is the best way to go.
What is the root cause of the pins shearing off?
The pins shear off because the babbitt thrust washers are gone and the pins are the only thing left.
the back and forth spinning of the steel washers doesnt help either. most of the time the steel washers are fine but the pins are gone thus telling me at least the pins are made out of a softer steel
My experience also, Nathan. When I pulled my axle apart I found the babbit washers and steel washers were all there, and all of them actually looked good. But all the pins were gone.
The reason I don't like the roller bearing thrust bearings is that you only have half a pin holding the race in place. Brass thrust washers are a far better alternative to the original Ford Babbitt washers.You will never wear them out in your life time. Stick with the brass. What little additional friction you have is insignificant and nothing to worry about.