Why no residue of Babbits in this engine block

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Why no residue of Babbits in this engine block
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 01:50 pm:

The engine block was bought on ebay for half a year ago.
I see no traces of Babbits, and wondering if there might be unused.
Looks very good sooner otherwise, shall remove from the box and inspect it more.
Has warmed away Babbits or ...? you can not see where anything left of Babbits.
It is very clean and no oil residue there.

Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 02:08 pm:

Looks like Babbitt in the holes in the bearing area. Dan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ake Osterdahl on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 02:45 pm:

dan
... it's not babbit, there are rivets that are visible there.
Ake


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 03:01 pm:

Ake,
It is not surprising that you would see no babbitt. Normally the bearing material (babbitt) does not stick or bond to the block. It is held by a mechanical means. There are several blind holes drilled into the casting and the hot material runs into these holes. Thus locking the bearing in place.
Bearing caps however are different. The babbitt does bond to the caps. They are tinned and poured hot while the block is not hot.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 04:10 pm:

Ake, those are not rivets, they are babbitt. If you scrape them with a knife, you will find soft material that will come out of the holes easily.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 04:12 pm:

Ake,

It would be very unusual to have rivets in those holes. Try scraping the "rivets" with a knife to see if they're not in fact babbitt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 10:52 pm:

Jim, the block is hot when the babbitt is poured. It's just that babbitt won't stick to cast iron. That is why it is melted in cast iron pots.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 11:35 pm:

When prept properly, lead or tin, as in solder or babbitt will and does stick and stay on cast iron, example, radiator spouts for about a 100 years, soldered cast iron, butchers equipment, mincers etc, made of cast iron and tinned for long rust free life for the last few hundred years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 11:38 pm:

Kerry,
You are correct that solder or babbitt will bond to cast iron. The problem with a block is getting it hot enough.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 12:05 pm:

Looks like the block was acid stripped which removed most of the babbit...leaving only that in the holes. With more time in the acid, it would have taken that out too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 01:33 pm:

Tining takes place at 610 to 640.

Tining a Radiator outlet is not the same thing as trying to Tin saddles in a block.

Jim is right, a fresh machined block, and put in some new fixed block cracks, bring the block to 630 and try to tin a porous cast Iron block with all the flux impurity that would come back to haunt you.

630 would spread cracks, warp cylinders, valve trains, cam lines.

That's about 3 times of the Temp. of a Model T boiling.

I can't believe it would do lock-n-stitch any good!

And all for somebody that doesn't know the process for babbitting a block!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 02:16 pm:

To me, it looks more like it wasn't in a chemical bath as it doesn't have that finish.

The saddle babbitt looks like it was pried out as all the lugs broke off and stayed.

If babbitt is left in the block, and while in the chemical. The chemical will not take the babbitt out of the block, but the babbitt will ruin the chemical, and the chemical will ruin the babbitt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 03:49 pm:

And that from somebody that doesn't know the process of all the cleaning chemicals!!
Our radiator hot tub would rip that babbitt right out of the sucker!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 04:37 pm:

Well, Kerry, if I ever have to take a motor to a Radiator to get it rebuilt, maybe I will learn about your Chemicals!

If you ever take one of your Radiators to an Engine shop, maybe you will learn about what they need to use for Chemicals, and how they work.


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