In another thread members were discussing how cold it was in there area and the wind chill. Well I went out to look at my thermometer and I can hardly read it because of the energy saving light bulb is so cold it can't put out enough light. I am so glad the government is forcing us to buy this crap. I just hope I don't fall on the front porch steps.
Amen to that.
The folks that forced that upon us apparently were not raised on a farm. A 60 watt bulb is a great heat source to keep baby chicks alive, hang under a tarp to ensure the tractor would start, put down in the well pit to keep the pump from freezing, etc., etc. it's a sad time for our country.
You can still buy incandescent bulbs. They will cost a little more but the energy saved will more then make up the cost difference.
This is not as bad as it looks:
I stocked up with several year's worth of 60's and 100's. I hope they last until LED's are developed well enough and cheap enough to replace CFC's.
I did the same as Mr. Jelf.
I stocked up on 60, 75 and 100W bulbs - basically a lifetime supply.
Whenever the ballast goes out in a metal halide light in my shop, I wire around it and get a CFL with a big base that screws right in. Gives off just as much light and uses half the electricity. Downside is the bulbs are $75.00 each! They aren't curley like the small ones, they are several loops and are nearly a foot long.
I replaced the many decorative large incandescent bulbs in my bathrooms about a year ago. Unfortunately I quit smoking about 20 years ago so I do not have a lighter in my pocket to see if the damn things are actually working when I go in to pee. I had to replace one bulb in each bathroom with a incandescent so I could hit the target.
I should have noted that the replacement bulbs were CFL's.
Stocking up on incandescents? I'm appalled! Where is your concern for the planet? Your fellow man? You are a bunch of evil, greedy, illegitimates. Do you warm your car up before driving, too? You are the very reason we have this global warming that strands ships full of scientists in Antarctica.
Canada banned 75 and 100 watt bulbs last week. They can still be purchased if manufactured in 2013 or prior.
40 & 60 watt bulbs will be banned Dec 31 2014
The new bulbs are also considered hazardous material when you go to dispose of them. If I also understand correctly it takes more energy and material to make these bulbs so where is the savings?
I stocked up but the Edison type bulbs don't last as long as they used to.
I hate them pigtail bulbs.And you are supposed to ventilate the area and call in hazmat if 1 bust.I think they modified the law here in the us,I aint sure
by the way, i hope that was a blown bulb you smit with the hammer. :>0
If you guys don't keep quiet someone in Washington is going to read this section of the forum and alert the powers that be that we have not converted the headlights on our Model T's to CFL's yet! And acetylene lamps....well their just gonna hafta go......;)
The curley q bulbs sold today do not last like the earlier ones so I guess they have found a way to cheapen them up. AH, global warming down here in TN where it is 0 this morning and my ducks and geese would not go to work today.
every time the E.P.A does something more jobs are shipped overseas I move we de-fund the E.P.A
I replaced most of my incandescent bulbs years ago and have absolutely no regrets. I switched out the regular 100 watt bulbs in my UNHEATED garage with 26 watt cfl's ages ago. I have replaced ONE in four years...because I broke it with my ladder. Yes, they take about a minute or so to reach full brightness at the -24 it got down to yesterday. I use the "instant on" variety in the other outdoor fixtures with even better results. All the time they are operating, I am saving roughly 75% of the electricity costs, and that means more money in my pocket to spend on the "T".
Ya gotta be kidding. Now they want to get into the
electrical supply business? They tried producing
Chevys and Buicks, that didnt work. Now they want to
be doctors without going to medical school?
I read where they broke one at the local hardware store and had to call in a hazmat team to clean it up. So much for the money they saved on energy...
Rough service bulbs were exempted from the ban once they met certain requirements. You can buy most any wattage here: http://emory510.com/shop/index.php
The manufacture's site is here for details on their bulbs. http://www.brightlights-inc.com/
I guess I can throw this out after I run out of Edison 40's.
I bet the 10,000 Hour Legal incandescent 60 Watt Light Bulbs Made In the USA will work just fine for your fancy lamp. About $2 to $3 each. Look on ebay.
I’ve been test running a 15 watt GE Saf-T-Gard CFL soft white
bulb in same style of motion lamp for a year or so – works just fine.
Actually will likely extend the life of the fragile lamp parts.
It'll be a while before I run out Jim. It's a motion lamp as you guy's know and the heat makes an internal fan revolve. Speaking of the twirly bulbs: We smelled a slight burning odor in the kitchen. Smelled a lot like Bakelite burning. I snorted the dishwasher, microwave, fridge and what ever else I could think of. When the overhead light above the sink, which acts as a night light and is always on, finally burned out I located the smell. The twirly bulb was failing. When I removed it you could smell whatever it was that was cooking inside the base.
I use these in the garage. 300 watts. About a foot long and 4" wide. Big box stores have 'em. Around $20.00. Been up there for years and fire up in any weather. It's 9 deg. here right now.
My new house in Missouri came with compact fluorescents in nearly every lamp location and at least so far I've been happy with them. They are somewhat dim at first, but after a 30 second warmup they put out plenty of light. I've been in the house 3 years now and haven't had to replace any of them. We'll see how they do over the longer term.
I don't usually share my political views, and never here, but I'm tired of biting my tongue.
Recently, the mayor of New York City attempted a ban on the sale of soft drinks larger than 32 ounces. That was based on his insistence that too much sugar wasn't good for his constituents. Regardless of whether he was right or wrong about sugar content, I'm not real comfortable about government claiming the authority to decide what's good for me (a dangerous precedent if ever there was one). Another example: In the city of San Francisco, it is now illegal to buy or sell goldfish. Why? Because it's cruel to the fish. With the above in mind, would I really be be exaggerating to say that government is micro-managing the lives of citizens?
Bear with me just a little longer. Let's look at the smallest room in my house; the bathroom. The government is in my toilet bowl, telling me how much I can flush. The government is in my shower-head, telling me how much water I can use to rinse off. And now, the government is in the light-socket over my mirror, telling me what kind of bulbs I'm allowed to use. And that's just the bathroom—the tiniest little place where an individual is assumed to enjoy the absolute maximum level of privacy and autonomy.
So what happened? The slippery slope, that's what. It started with seat-belt laws. At the time, I thought it was a great idea and if it had stopped there, I'd still be of that opinion. But it appears that once the government gets a taste of power, it develops an appetite for more. I figure, at some point before the stupid soft-drink and gold-fish legislation, it was time to stop.
(And I'll only ever so briefly comment on the ridiculous amount of taxes I pay, which, in effect, buys the government a brand new car every single year—which I certainly couldn't afford to do for myself—but every dozen years when I do, I have to finance the purchase over a period of several years!)
Forgive my outburst. I'll try to be a good boy for another five years.
You are absolutely correct! Your "outburst" is right on target!!!!!
The issue started way before seat belts. Just a few things that used to be legal to buy and sell are:
Cars without safety glass
Dynamite at your local hardware store
And probably hundreds more.....
Nothing new here, just change from what is "normal" at the time is always hard. The Government is here to protect you from yourself.
OK, now, what do we do about it?
Did you get that, NSA?
I'm 80 years old and resist change, but I have to admit that I like the new lamps. I've replaced all of them in my barn and wouldn't go back. What I really dislike is that the government tells me that I must change!
I am afraid that it is too late to change.
The blivet in washington will eventually bust wide open.It has exceeded the 10 pounds.
You got me on that one...had to go to Wiki....
blivet definition /bliv'*t/ [allegedly from a World War II military term meaning "ten pounds of manure in a five-pound bag"] 1. An intractable problem.
I didn't think that you were that old!!
Well, if you don't like government telling you what to do, don't even think of building a new house in Califunny. I just finished wiring a new one and what with light bulbs, arc fault breakers, etc, not to mention the required fire sprinkler system, tempered glass windows, minimum and maximum window sizes, plus mega thousands for a permit, oy, I can't stand it!
My nieghbor uses that term alot.
I can't imagine how long this thread would be if the light bulbs were oil filled and cooled with a water pump.
Several folks commented on it only takes 20 to 30 minutes for the bulbs to come up to full brightness and how they last for years. Well one set of bulbs that I commented on has been on for two weeks and when the cold snap hit I couldn't see five feet! I have also replaced these bulbs many times over the last three years. Not just the ones I leave on for security but other ones that are seldom used. I have over sixty buildings that I maintain and we have used the so called energy saving bulbs for years and you'll never convince me that they are any good. I am constantly replacing them when they are advertised to last 7 years. Most time I don't even get 7 weeks.
"Canada banned 75 and 100 watt bulbs last week. They can still be purchased if manufactured in 2013 or prior.
40 & 60 watt bulbs will be banned Dec 31 2014"
Funny thing, I live in Canada but I get to read about this on an American website.
Talk about tight lipped government.
I had a conversation with a gentleman who had a company that made fire suppression equipment. I asked how the last year was for him. He said it was a great year for sales, because they were finally successful in getting legislation passed that required fire suppression equipment on food vendor carts in several states. He said that translated in to $1500 to $2,000 per cart for his company. I wonder how many other "requirements" are really for the good of the American public, or are they just good for somebody's bottom line? Think about it. If your competition manufactured incandescent bulbs, and you wanted to sell CFL bulbs at 10 times the price, how would you do it?
Ah, you found out the secret! Yep, more profits in CFLs.
Let us ignore the fact that one CFL requires at least 10 times the raw materials to manufacture, and 200% more energy to create too--the electrical savings will NEVER offset the environmental cost to produce them compared to incandescents."Green Science" rules!
David - you forgot to mention no CFL's are made in the USA they are made in china or mexico
I bought 3000 regular bulbs at 40 cents each from Ace Hardware's stock. Going over to pick up 48 cases right now. My observation - my wife despises the light from the cfl's
Our indoor CFL's burn out as quick as the incandescent while costing much more (if you turn them on and off - cycles - it decreases life) They work fine outdoors in my continuous burn porch light and security light applications where they are never turned off
I have worked for three companies connected to the lighting industry -
Corning who made the glass for light bulbs,
GE who made glass and assembled light bulbs,
and Osram/Sylvania who did the same as GE.
They made both incandescent and florescent lights - along with other lighting products
Most of my time was spent in automotive and high pressure sodium lighting, but I also worked with the CRT (cathode ray tubes) and we all know what happened to them.
It is amazing how some people can make things sound good when they are not - as someone said - although the new lights cost less to operate they cost more to make and the materials are more dangerous and harder to dispose of.
The public is being duped by the promise of lower costs when the real costs are higher.
(I could give you true stories about the impact of lead free solder but not here.)
The net effect being that in the name of a "Green
Environment" we are doing more to trash the world.
I can assure you that the lighting companies did not drive the change.
They wanted to continue using the production lines they already had in place -
It was driven by the uninformed dweebs that think anything old is no good -
These are the same dweebs that want to make decisions about what operations or medicines us "old folks" will get.
Or maybe I should say the same dweebs that are trying to make decisions for us.
Someday they will be surprised to learn that they are the "old folks" and some young know-it all will tell them that they are worthless.
The light bulb ban passed parliament very quietly during the senate fiasco. Misdirection by media.
Brother, you don't have to tell us down here about misdirection by the media. I think we invented it.
Dennis if you fall on your front steps you should be able to sue the bulb manufacturer,the place you bought it from, the government, and maybe even whoever produced the material for your steps. With the proceeds, you can continue adding to your Model T collection. Hmmmm....now there's an idea. Maybe I'll pay you a visit. Where do you live??
Even more OT
About 10 years ago Canada bought 4 obsolete submarines from England. On its way to Canada one caught fire and had to be towed to port. This sub has just been repaired and just been put into service.
I wonder if the 40W fluorescent tubes, that have been around since maybe the 30's, were as hated then, as the CFLs are today. The CFL's really are not so different from those.
Most of the hatred towards CFL bulbs has been generated by media hype, such as the alarmist ding-a-lings in the 11 o'clock news, who wouldn't know a CFL from the NFL.
I'm not saying whether they are, or are not, cost effective, and I don't like them being forced on us through the banning of incandescents.
That's it, Jerry. It's the ramming of them down our throats that breeds the hatred of them. The very fact that they HAD to ram them down our throats is good evidence that they are not the greatest thing since cheese grits. If they were so great, people would be beating the door down to buy them and incandescent bulbs would cease to be manufactured due to lack of demand.
How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
None, the light bulb has to want to change on its own.
Canucks can still buy 100W bulbs as 'Rough Service' bulbs are exempt from the ban for now, but they get banned in 2015. Go to your local Acklands and order a bunch if you need'em.
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
- President Reagan August 12, 1986
I built a new victorian house with my wife Renee in 1989. Being that the house was more than double the size of the old house we had, I was very concerned about the new electric bills and other energy costs. In those days the CFL was just emerging but it was at that time done "the right way" by having the ballast portion (the part that really rarely needs replacing) as part of the fixture and only the tube being a plug in. They tended to be very small and very energy efficient with PLC13 bulbs being the ones I chose for general use in my house. I have fancy brass victorian ceiling fixtures in my house that will fool you since they are in fact CFL and have been that way since 1989. I also had a very efficient AC system and the then new 95% gas furnaces. The AC systems proved to save energy but not money since they had a valve in the high pressure side of the lines that constantly broke. I found out after several valve replacements and recharge costs that the valve only had a very very small affect on the efficiency since it was designed to prevent the refrigerant from going back into the compressor when the compressor shut off and thus saving the last few ounces of cooling in the A coil. Those valve replacements were about $250-300 service calls and wiped out my costs savings but the CFL's worked out great. I ditched the AC valves on the next service call and the AC systme has never needed any service since. Believe it or not I still have one or 2 CFL's in service that were original to the 1989 construction. Now I have them literally everywhere in my house - in ceiling cans, victorian reproduction light fixtures with the ballasts being remote in the ceiling - literally everywhere in including bathroom over the mirror and show stall ceiling light. They use about 15 watts of total power but I got billed for 25 watts on each because they had a poor power factor. I put my own power factor correction on them with a capacitor carefully chosen at each fixture and my power bill dropped back to where it should since now they draw 15 watts on the power meter. The power companies like the CFL because with most of them you pay for 25 watts while consuming 15 because the power meter on the house actually measures volt amps hours while billing for watt hours. It has to do with line current being the thing that they actually measured with. I am really surprised that nobody filed a class action law suit against power companies for the rip off that residential customers were subjected to. But I digress. The main thing is that the CFL bulbs have beaten their advertised life of 30,000 hours but they are NOT the twist type where they also sell you a new el cheapo ballast with each bulb. The burned up bulbs that you see are in fact usually a ballast failure. Since my fixtures have a high quality ballast and I only replace the compact tube of the CFL (plc13), they have lasted a very very long time and they now draw 15 billable watts while producing the light of a 60 Watt bulb. They are warm white temperature so in the frosted victorian chandeliers in my house you cannot tell they are CFL except you might notice they blink when you first turn the fixture on. I hate being told what I can and must buy because if I had to buy the twist type things - the local ones are junk. I made the choice to put CFL's everywhere in my house a long time ago and those paid off big time since I did it the right way. I bought a couple cases of bulbs and still have some spares on the shelf from that buy in 1989. With PLC13's and careful placement of the ballast you can make a very efficient light that has a plug in small bulb that is not as big as a 60W incandescent bulb because only the folded up tube is being plugged in.
LED bulbs ultimately are a better bulb than CFL so just about the time Big Brother has everyone forced to CFL they will have forced us to the wrong technology in the same way they have forced the Chevy Volt on us when the fuel cell car is clearly the way to go but I digress again. We need an energy secretary with both a brain AND some practical engineering experience and who also does not have a law degree. Now in Washington all 3 of those never come in one person.
Your wattage may vary.
John VERY informative. Questions if able and willing to share
I found the CFL (plc13)bulbs for about $ 3 each
I found the ballast but not the fixtures for the bulbs. How does one replace a 60 watt incandescent bulb with a CFL (plc13)
I hate the twisted CFL's as they cost more and burn out quickly in my home as fast as 60 watt incandescent. While I do have 3000 60 watt incandescent on hand I am always willing to try a new idea picture is of a CFL (plc13)
John mentioned the LED bulbs. We just finished remodeling our kitchen and dining room, and all the new lighting is LED. They don't need a "warm-up time" like the CFL's, they come in warm colors similar to incandescent bulbs, they use about half as much electricity for light output compared with CFL's, and they say they'll last for about 25 years before you'll need to replace them. They're expensive up front (about $10-20), but will save money in the long run, using so much less electricity. And as they get to be more common, I'm sure the initial price will fall, just as CFL's have. We really like them so far.
Nice kitchen, Mike! Kudos to the brave person who picked out a red sink, it looks great!
When I built my house LED's were not ahead yet of CFL's in light output. The thing to look at is LUMENS/WATT and up to about 2 years ago the CFL was still ahead at about 85 Lumens/watt while the LED's were coming in at about 60 but now LED's have nosed out the best CFL's. My CFL's in my house have zero warm up time. The strike and come to full brilliance immediately. Outdoor and twisty type have skimped on the ballast as they have to in order to be at all price competive and many of those have a long warm up time that is even way longer when used in cold climate. What you have to be mindful of is that CFL works great indoors and their color rendering makes them usable side by side with incandescent and your wife may car about that. The problem with LED's is they are very very directional and require diffusers to get the light to spread out and/or they also need multiple units aimed in different directions. I have converted my entire yard landscape setup from halogen T3 to LED this past summer and the total wattage went from about 400 to less then 75. LED's will be the long term winner but there is some distance to go to get a general lamp like a standard incandescent or CFL that puts out uniform light in all directions. The CFL's have been a great value in my installation but please understand I am talking about the small ones pictured above by David.
I have to scram right now but I will respond later to David's question. I am going to an auction to hopefully buy a farm so I can build me a big toy box. Boy would I like that. My dad was a farmer but we never knew each other or I should see I never knew him.
Wish me good luck guys.
Best of Luck to you John ! !
And even tough you said "....I can build me a big toy box"
Remember to build it bigger than you think you need. They tend to shrink with use !
You can probably count on a ban on gallium arsenide is gonna be the next big thing shoved down our throats ... we'll be back to catching fireflies in jars before too long.
Well I didn't get the farm - darn. I am disappointed but not discouraged. It went for silly money because the guy who owned the farm exactly next door would not be outbid. I guess he figured it was the one time in the next 40 years that he might have the chance to get the property next door and double the size of his farm. Can't fault him for that and I suppose he also realized that every dollar higher the bid went then the higher the appraised value of the property he already owned since it was right next door. Hard to compete with that.
As for the CFL conversion of lights and things. Not every 60W lamp can be converted to a cfl since you have to figure out where to put the ballast. CFL's of the PLC13 size come in 2 configurations. One is a 4 pin bulb and the other is a 2 pin bulb. I actually have both types in my home. The 4 pin ones use a solid state ballast and are a bit more efficient than the 2 pin type which use the passive ballast which is typically a small inductor. Either way you have to get the right socket to accept the type of bulb you are using and that type is dependent on the ballast you intend to use. But for either type what I did was make a round brass wafer about 1/8" thick and with a diameter just large enough to encompass the socket mounting screws since the plastic sockets generally are screwed down to a flat surface. I drilled and tapped small mounting holes in the brass wafer for mounting the socket. So now I have the socket screwed down to this round brass wafer that I previously drilled and threaded in the center for the standard 3/8-24 electrical conduit thread. That then is how I converted the various fixtures but some of them I bought already converted. What happened in 1989 was that I approached St. Louis Antique Lighting to make victorian chandeliers like in their catalog but to mount CFL's in place of the usual 60W bulbs and then to supply me the ballasts (inductors) loose so I could remote them from a hidden box in the ceiling. They did it and then a short time later I noticed they started offering them in their catalog ha ha. With a judicious choice of an etched glass globe you cannot tell they are CFL's.
Hope this helps.
Sorry for you about that John. Somehow, things work out for the best - even though we may not think so at the present.
You are the envy of many of us with that superb scalp cover!
May the sun continue to shine on you and yours.
Sorry you didn't get the farm, John. Keep looking, the right one will come along.
Several thoughts: With the price of farm ground being what it is today, I'm not interested. I suspect a lot of them will be lost in the not to distant future.
What is the output of the ballasts? AC DC, amps etc.
John - I suspect you left a question in some folks minds about you never knowing your dad. We're both war babies. Your dad never came home,(we discussed this at the Indianapolis Swap Meet years ago) mine was deferred as a toolmaker - plus was pretty old to serve.
John; I am impressed with your research and have a question. Given all the costs to modify and improve the existing materials at the time, what was the break even point in usage-hours per unit compared to the current at the time incandescent bulbs.
I went by lowes this morning,big sign about bulbs.We lost the 100 watt in 2012 and the 75 in 2013 and will loose the 40-60 in 2014.
I hope hades overflows because of the fools that wont reverse this mess.
I thought surely by now someone would wise up and fix this mess,that I know happened before 2008.
My buddy wants some more 100 watt bulbs to keep his well house from freezing.The man in that department showed me some halogen bulbs equal in light to 100 watt but 72 power consupmtion.So that means 72 watt heat output right?
I need to fiqure this out because we use bubs here to.
You are correct the wattage is the total heat output. The total heat output is a combination of direct heat output and radiate heat from heating of the lighted surface. The new 72 watt halogen bulbs incandescent will put out the same light as the old 100 watt but only 72 watts of total heat.
For keeping the well house from freezing you have several choices. Use the 72 watt or use a 100 watt Rough Service or the 150 watt "normal" incandescence or a infrared heat bulb.
Wasn't it Kermit the frog that said, it ain't easy being green?
As you have pointed out Mack, there are no sources for 100 watt heaters and especially for the price of an old incedecant bulb. Be quiet, roll over and take it. We have elected officials smarter than us ( just ask them ) to protect us from ourselves.
Imagine if we had leaders that believed in free markets and allowed the consumer to pick and choose the winners. Guess we just ain't smart enough.
I wonder if you can get the 100 watt extended service (5000 hour) bulbs down there. Standard bulbs are rated for 1000 hours.
Thanks Jim.I will forward that info,
Due the doctors not knowing what caused my seizures i had can lights put in my shop.They aint worth a dang.Cant see anything.
I put standard 100 watt bulbs in,sylvanias,and they last a month of use and burn out.I have to keep calling someone to change them as I cant get on a ladder.
I tried some cfl "flood" lights.1 burnt out and the other,started smokeing up the place 1 cold morning i forgot to stoke the fire the night before.
So I am faced with trying to fiqure out,what to do to improve the lights.
Someone told me the skinny tube bulbs dont buzz and flash like the old 1's did that could cause seziures. so I may have to try to hookup a couple of those.
Free market would work so well given the chance.
FEMA is giving away (taxpayer paid) bottled water in Charleston, West Virginia, because the free market was too free, and F'd up.
Tell me about free market coal, again. Without CFL bulbs, there would have to be much more of it.
Ken and others. The extended service bulbs are often sold just as cheap as standard bulbs IF you pay attention to the bulb markings and forget the hype. Main thing about long life bulbs is they design them to a higher operate voltage. Look for bulbs marked 130V on them instead of the usual 120V or 125V. Since you will be applying about 120v to that 130V bulb you will get longer life and a LOT longer than you might think if you buy a bulb that is rated for 135V and then operate it at 125V. You will get somewhere between 3 and 5 times the life. Yes you will get very slightly less light out but I suspect you won't even notice it. The rough service bulbs don't last much longer in an automotive trouble light so I wouldn't buy them for that. In fact I hate incandescent trouble lights and got myself a CFL one a long time ago. No more getting "branded" when you bump into it.
There are 2 "general" types of ballast devices in use for both the fluorescent and CFL type bulbs. The passive type of ballast consists of an inductor when used with a single bulb and an inductor + capacitor typically when used with 2 tubes. Those type of ballast devices operate the tube or CFL at 60 Hz and the bulb in fact blinks at a 60Hz rate but the human eye can't see it but it may be a fact that the human brain can sense it and that may be causing you seizures. Most of the solid state (often called transistor type) ballasts do NOT operate at 60 Hz even though the power to those ballasts is in fact 120V 60Hz. Electronic ballasts (yet another name for the solid state or transistor type) are getting more common and they convert the 120V 60Hz into the correct voltage for the bulb but they switch it off and on at typically 20,000 times per second. These type of ballasts do NOT BUZZ at all. They switch the bulb at this high rate for 2 reasons. One is that it makes the amount of inductance in the ballast much smaller than a 60Hz passive ballast and that makes it cheaper but also the absolute fact is that fluorescent tubes and CFL bulbs put out way more lumens/watt when operated at faster switching speeds. The 4 pin version of the PLC13 is for electronic ballasts while the 2 pin version uses a passive inductor ballast typically. the 2 pin bulb has a starter circuit in its base. When my house was built the only thing available was the passive type ballasts and 2 pin bulbs. The other advantage of the 4 pin type is that electronic ballasts are available in "program start" type which extends the life of the bulb by as much as a factor of 3 since the life of a CFL or tube type bulb is shorter when turned on and off a lot. With Program Start ballast that problem is virtually eliminated. The 85 Lumens/watt is accomplished using electronic ballast and a 4 pin CFL but you have to know which type of ballast you are buying since there are tons of them out there. The 2 pin type bulb can only operate at 60 Hz and will give you between 60 and 70 lumens/watt. For comparison a typical incandescent bulb gives you 12 Lumens/watt. That is a broad generalization but not too far off and is typical when comparing a large lot of them.
I like the CFLs and I wear seat belts and helmets. What I don't like is the government nanny state telling me I have to use any of them.
Thank you John ,so electronic ballast for less or no problem.
I was scared I would have trouble and have been unable to see well in the shop in takeing the precaution since.
the strobes on hwy patrol cars and our work trucks used to cause me sickness and headache and other issues even before my head injury.
Well I am no doctor but if you can learn the type of ballast you need to watch for you can buy them on ebay sometimes for low bucks. "Program start" ballasts for a 2 tube (28Watt) T8 type of "shop light" can run as high as $75 each. What they offer is super efficiency and super long life to the 4 foot T8 tubes. I decided to stop using T12 tubes (standard old fashioned 2 tube shop lights) as I used up the good bulbs and my last half case of the T12 tubes. I figured when the bulbs all burned out I would rewire my shop lights with the program start electronic ballasts and start then using the 28W T8 high efficiency bulbs. I bought a case of the bulbs and a case of the ballasts and just waited for the old style T12 tubes to be used up. Now soon after getting the tubes and ballasts I did some arithmetic and based upon the difference in electrical consumption of the old versus the new tubes and ballasts I realized that waiting to convert them to use up any T12 bulbs I had was a stupid idea since the old tubes were about 1.25 each at that time and I could save more than that in electricity in less than 18 months. I gave away the old 4 foot T12 tubes and rewired all the shop fixtures to use the T8 tubes. That was about 3 years ago. So far I have not burned out a single T8 tube. The new electronic ballasts are very small so no problems at all in retrofitting the fixtures. Took about 15 minutes per fixture.
If when your fluorescent tubes fail you see the ends have turned black then your tube has failed due to "sputtering" of the cathodes at the ends of the tube. That is caused mainly by "on/off" repetition. Program start allows a lot of on/off switching but each time the tube comes on it goes through this quick controlled power up sequence that prevents 95% of the sputtering so the life is not affected much. It seems to work. The T8 tubes are switching at 20,000Hz while the old tubes were switching at 60Hz. When I rewired the first T12 fixture to use T8 tubes I let it operate side by side with the old T12 and asked folks simply "which fixture is brighter in your eye" Everyone agreed without question that the T8 was much brighter yet it was only using 28W versus the old versions 40W. The actual fixture total was more efficient in both light output and power consumed. The program start ballast was perfected by Sylvania but I think it was immediately offered by GE too as I recall. I may have that mixed up but there is little doubt in my mind that it works. The reason why I still like CFL and T8 fluorescent lights is that the bulbs and ballasts are standardized with multiple sources so that brings prices down. I can't tell you for sure where any of this technology is manufactured but the parts I bought are GE and Sylvania. LED's are great but there has not emerged very many "standards" and very few if any are interchangeable. Also we are getting ripped off big time for the LED's since the super bright technology is very cheap to manufacture. I don't like to pay up front for all the energy I am gonna save but that is what is happening. Be smart and weigh the savings versus the up front costs and make smart decisions. LED prices are all over the map because there are no standards with regard to assemblies except for automotive bulbs like 1156 but even those are not alike between 2 vendors.
I'm not 100% against regulating industry. We can still have a free market that lives within boundaries. The examples you have give are on a different tangent than mine. While I'm not against regulation, I am against the removal of consumer choice. The ironic part of all this is the choice was removed by legislation put forth by the party of pro-choice.
There is no real ecological disaster being brought down by the Edison bulb especially when compared to the manufacturing and waste issues associated with the CFL. I just wish the Prius had them for headlights (with no option).
Legislating technology is always risky, regardless of the goals. CFL legislation may hurry the progress of LED, or maybe not.
SoCal Edison gave me several LED bulbs of various kinds to try, in exchange for a 20 minute survey. I would have given the LED a much better score if I hadn't already had CFL in most of the house. LED looks like it will never compete with CFL in most places, due to very high costs. Even the 15w LED bulb has a big metal structure at the base.
Funny part of the survey was they didn't compare LED to CFL anywhere.
Had the government not gotten involved in forcing the CFL to market and making it more or less mandatory technology, the CFL would have easily replaced the incandescent bulbs without any real pushback because the direction they were heading was in a form fit and function improvement with a lower cost. In a free market society that is a clear winner every time. My installation in 1989 proves it to me and I am a natural skeptic. The fixtures were emerging then that had the ballast built in with only the bulb needing replacement and not very often. I did not pay the 12-15 dollars per bulb but paid less than $3 per bulb and the passive ballast was a one time cost which was also very cheap since it is part of the can lights that I used in the ceilings everywhere that I didn't have a victorian fixture which also used the same cfl. They rarely burn out because there is little heat and you can even insulate them right up to the housings unlike other can lights which eat bulbs quickly because of their heat. The bulb is easy to make if you are only bending up a tube of gas since that has been done for a long time before the CFL. Once they were mandated then people had to buy them and any incentive to make them cheaper and better went out the window. Why sell for cheap when the customer has to buy? I will probably find it difficult to buy what was the "standard" CFL and have to buy the kind that are a retrofit that includes a new ballast with each bulb. While it may sound like a good deal to replace ballast and all - it is not since the ballast must now be made cutting every corner possible and who cares about quality since they are mandated. All of the energy saving money that should come to you is siphoned off at the time you buy it and China made it so....
Federal legislating of technology and most of the other things it forces on us are unconstitutional unless one can't read the 10th amendment which is very specific in what it says. Only activist judges claim to be able to decipher English correctly I guess. They claim the vague "commerce clause" trumps the emphatic 10th amendment which one would wonder why they put in our Constitution since it enforces NOTHING. There will be no stopping things now. The fight is over and they won. I have no interest in what they say - just let me know where to be when the shooting starts and I will be there if alive. Until then I am just going to have whatever fun I can. I am glad I am 70 and nearing the end of my time. I don't want to live in the world that is coming.
Government of the people, by the people, and for the people HAS perished from the earth. Sorry Abe but we blew it. Socialism is here and it will take a long time before people finally realize what happened. Large centralized governments need to control every aspect of human behavior since they are convinced that if free to make choices we are not smart enough to make good ones. They therefore need to quantify, codify, and then regulate every aspect of human behavior. Look around you - Big Brother is here and I love Big Brother - don't you?
Amen John. They threw the constitution out the window years ago. Heck, ole Abe broke the constitution many times to fight the Civil War - to me, it was the "War of Northern Aggression".
Not that I disagree with you John....in fact I wholeheartedly agree -
Socialism is here and it will take a long time before people finally realize what happened....
It just further discourages me when the usually happy Leprechaun tells the sad truth!
Soon, we'll have to use 12v incandescent trouble light bulbs and run an auto alternator to power them.
I finally ditched all of my car flashlights and bought three of these, they work great. They put out plenty of light and have a folding hook on one end and a pair of magnets on the other end. They stay bright a long time and can be recharged from a wall socket or a car cigarette lighter.
LMAO I did the math on a napkin at a restaurant over lunch when I passed a wind farm about 25 miles back on a recent trip to Southern IL. There are so many problems with wind as a power source that it seems silly they could get this far before somebody pointed out the king isn't wearing any clothes. Take away the gubermint subsidy and these things would be on the salvage market in minutes I suspect. Perhaps not.
Besides being a lot more energy efficient I like the 4' T-8s w/electronic ballasts because they're rated for starting down to -18ºC (0ºF).
Much better in the winter in an unheated shop where the temp can get down to about -15ºC (5ºF), or colder.
Sure, they're dim when they first come on, but at least they come on.
Your Typical fossil fuel hating enviro-nazi.
Not only do energy saving bulbs save energy directly, they save air conditioning costs caused by wasted heat from incandescents.
Ralph, You don't have to call Hazmat when you break an incandescent bulb.
Just so some gullible person doesn't get the wrong impression.
TRUE: CFLs contain mercury, a potentially dangerous substance.
TRUE: While mercury stays safely contained in intact CFLs, it escapes from broken CFLs into the immediate surroundings.
FALSE: The amount of mercury contained in one CFL bulb poses a grave danger to a home's inhabitants.
TRUE: The breakage of a CFL bulb needs to be handled with care and certain procedures should be followed in removing the broken bulb and its contents from a home.
FALSE: The mercury dispersed by one broken CFL bulb needs to be dealt with only by an environmental clean-up crew.
More details about clean up at:
Jim, I was just ribbing Ralph, but we do live in a parts per billion world, most likely to become a parts per trillion world soon.
How about all those light switches and thermostats from 20 and more years ago? They have a little puddle of mercury inside.
I've read that, if you live somewhere where any significant amount of your power comes from coal, you could break every CFL bulb you have and release less mercury into the environment than the additional that would be released at the coal power plant if you used incandescents instead. Never dug into the details. Since I bet the amount of CFLs that get broken is actually pretty small and since they last way longer (in my experience) I'm not too worried about the mercury.
(I also remember rolling balls of mercury around in my hands for fun when I was a kid. I'm guessing - like lead - it is not easily absorbed through your skin.)
Heat from the bulbs??? Air Conditioning it out?
Bull. This is typical BS from the liberals.
I appreciate any heat I can get for about half of the year. Farther north, they like it even more. Another thing: The farther north you go, the longer the day length so the less you use the lights in the summer time when you might be using air conditioning.
John Regan hit the nail on the head above. I don't know how you can argue with his logic.
I have a friend who still lives in the house he grew up in. Back when his parents bought it new in the late 50's, his Dad poured mercury down each sink drain so they would never clog. They never did clog but you have to wonder about the safety of the house after that.
What good is expensive electric heat generated up near the ceiling? If you ever run air conditioning, it just adds to the load.
Radiant Ceiling Heat - back in the '70's - not popular today, but it did work.
We're splitting hairs here though..........
Ugh. They banned keeping chickens, eggs and other small animals warm, as well as heating small spaces with a fairly safe form of heat in the name of polluting the environment to save 5 cents of electricity?
Jay,I haven't seen any dead birds,but i have seen a few check's!! Nice and warm burning corn! Bud.
We looked at a Victorian house in Yoakum, TX about 2000. In the kitchen on a drop cord was an ancient looking 150 watt bulb marked as "Edison". I am sure the bulb was at least 50 years old and it still worked fine. They just don't make them like they used to.
When doing residential load calculations, lights are not really considered, some people toss in about 1000 watts just to cover the lighting, at 3.4 BTUH per watt a 100 watt bulb burning for one hour would produce 340 btu and all the lights in the house are rarely on all the time, it does make a difference in commercial buildings that leave the lights on all the time.
I guess this is just hitting home with most folks but this has been coming for about twelve years, all the new bulbs will save electricity but probably won't affect your bill much because as you use less they will raise the rate to make up for lost revenue, the gas company here did that, for years they touted 90+ % furnaces and even financed them but then the revenue stream went down and the rates went up to cover the loss. it is a no win and it can't be all blamed on the government.
Thanks for your comment. All this fuss over residential lighting doesn't make much sense when you take all residential lighting as a percentage of the entire residential load. A couple of minutes more or less on the dryer, range or A/C amount to a whole lot more than a few watts of lighting.
Gee Rick,What will i bitch about now?? Good on ya! Bud.
How about 1.5 gallon per flush toilets?
Not that's a subject worthy of a thread of it's own!! If done properly and you mix a little water with it thats 3 gallon!! What is needed much worse is a seat that raises a extra 2 to 3" in case of high water!! I have thought about inventing such a seat called [The Keepem Dry] but i draw the line at furnishing a picture of myself!! Bud.
I adjust the floats in mine so they will take two flushes and the water comes to the brim without overflowing. For number one a simple flush, for number 2 hold the handle a little longer. I had lots of kids and they would have flooded the house otherwise.
And to think my Grandparents had one of the round florescent lights in the kitchen, installed in maybe the late 50's early 60's. Don't know how long the bulb lasted, but it was longer then my current CFL.
How will lava lamps work now?
Hal those toilets are just now getting to be worth a hoot. The first 1 I put in to replace my old 1 due to cracks was not good. Had to reflush 2 to 3 times to remove all contents. My Kohler "hi rise" as I call it has yet to reject a deposit.
On a brighter note. THERE IS HOPE!.
I went by the Ace Hardware this morning and look what I found.Good old marketing technic. Out law it and relable it and double the price.4.99 for 2
They figured out a way to keep 100 watt and 75 watt bulbs out there. Rough service 130 volt.
Made in the US.