Some Interesting details, what is the gearbox, and steering wheel .... hm? etc.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-Model-T-Ford-Race-Car-Speedster-Roadster-Racer-Boat -Tail-Torpedo-Rajo-Roof-/181297196220?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&has h=item2a3627acbc&vxp=mtr
Looks to me like they never got it finished or they would have cut the front frame rails off. Probably a good thing as it is the worst deathtrap I've ever seen! I could however use the 1916-17 Maxwell gas tank they used for my car.
Ake, do you recognize the rear body panels? I believe they are coupe or coupelet rear quarters.
Howard, good call on the gas tank. Also looks like he has the front fenders, steering and maybe the frame from the Maxwell in the second photo.
I also enjoyed the oversized piston in the trunk.
More fun to look at than to own.
Thanks for showing it to us.
Nice example of how crude the era speedsters often were built.. The price indicates it's not really expected to sell, just showing it? Great story about the history of this speedster in the ad.
Front and rear accessory lowering brackets (Lima?) and odd steering - the gear looks a bit like mine (still unidentified): http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/397224.html?1382948652
You're right, Richard, when I study it some more.
Perhaps Stan can shed some light on this car. At the end of the ad it has a fellows name and phone number from Montana. (And everyone knows there's more cows then people in Montana so Stan may know him.)
That belongs to Bob Woodburn from Bozeman. He has a huge collection of everything from a quarter million dollar 1910 Kissell to piles of Model T parts, Corvettes, tractors, fire engines and more and more and on and on. You couldn't see it in a day if you tried. He sees value in things that I don't a lot of times and has done very well buying and selling so I don't criticize his listings anymore but that does seem just a wee bit high. It is fair to say that I have seen him sell things for money nobody else could have got out of it. This may be one of those.
I think John or I might be the guy he mentions that wanted some parts. I offered him a couple hundred bucks for the lowering setup, even tho I don't like that design a lot and would probably build my own instead of relying on 100 year old parts of indeterminate condition. John might have offered to buy them, too.
I hadn't seen it on ebay until it showed up here.
The front rails that stick out are probably either for a platform to stand on and shoot rabbits or a place for a barrel of water.
In the 1930's during the dry years in Montana there was a $1-2 bounty on Coyotes, depending on where they were and how much money the county had. As a consequence, they killed off almost every Coyote in the state and the Snowshoe Hare population exploded. Jack Rabbits eat a lot of grain and carry Tuleremia, (sp?) so there was a lot of effort to get the population down. .22 shells were 25@ a box and boys with a Model T cut down and a .22 could go out and shoot rabbits and sell them in town for ten or fifteen cents and make a little money and have a little fun doing it. (I had never before heard that any rabbit was ever worth $1.50, come on, Bob, that's just pure BS) With one brother driving and two standing on the front shooting, you could have a lot of fun for not much money and 20 or 30 rabbits a night would not only help out the crops but at least slow down the disease and make a better shot out of you, too. When I was in high school in the 50's there were not nearly as many rabbits but it was the number one recreation for boys (and many girls - my sister was a far better shot than I was and bought herself a new Remington .22 when she was a Sophomore in High School after she didn't get the one for Christmas she was hoping for) and all of us had .22 rifles, some had scopes, most didn't and we nearly all had some old rabbit hunting car with big spotlights and snow tires, etc to go rabbit hunting with. I had a 1930 Model A coupe with a 12 Volt generator and sealed beam headlights, 6:50-16 snow tires on the back and my buddy Rod and I and my sister were the terror of every Jack Rabbit in miles around. It is still the only kind of hunting I like to do. I won't shoot elk or deer on my property, haven't killed anything for years -- except a neighbor's dog that wouldn't stay home and leave my Cottontails alone -- but I would go up town today and buy a new .22 if I could go rabbit hunting in my Model A coupe tonight.
Anyway, Montana in the 1930's was like a lot of the west, pretty isolated, mostly farms and small towns and not a lot of money around. There was virtually no law enforcement about things like license plates, kids driving, etc., and a lot of kids made their own entertainment. Families pretty much stayed home at night instead of running back to town and there probably was a shop with tools for boys to work in and a junk pile down behind the barn for parts. It was a different place and time.
That story about the proliferation of rabbits takes me back to Idaho over forty years ago. Camped at Three Island Crossing on the Snake River, I wanted to get a picture of the crossing and its three islands at sundown. So as the sun sank to the horizon I drove to a likely spot on the bluff overlooking the river, found the position that suited me, and took a few shots of the crossing lit by a fine sunset. Headed back to camp in the gathering darkness I turned on my headlights. I was on a dirt track road between fields of alfalfa. This was bunny heaven. Hundreds, maybe thousands, of cottontails and jackrabbits hopped about in my lights as far as I could see. It was an amazing sight. I think if I were a farmer raising a crop so attractive to rabbits, I'd want a few coyotes around.
Now you know why they named the bunny in the Bambi movie "Thumper."
Surprisingly, those are slightly different rabbits than they are here. Some animal expert guy (whose real title escapes me) told me the difference a few years ago. Ours are Snowshoe Hare, those are some other slightly different breed. They are far more prolific than Snowshoe Hare, or so he said.
There are not many Snowshoe Hare here anymore. The Coyotes came back, the Wolves like them a lot and the little Red Fox finds young ones a tasty snack although they are not tough enough to kill a full grown one. Also, modern farming methods leave little habitat for them compared to the way fields were farmed 50-60 years ago. But it's mostly the Coyotes that keep them in check.
I drive a lot on two lane roads and a lot of it in the dark in Montana winters and I don't think I have seen a dozen rabbits in the last three or four years along the roads at night. We used to carry a .22 and stop on the highway and shoot them when I was a kid. Many times we just went out and drove around the gravel roads and shot rabbits that were on the edges of the road where the vegetation was uncovered or in the ditches. Not so anymore. I think every farmer kept a #3 washtub in the trunk to throw the rabbits in. Haul them to town and sell them for fifty cents to a buck apiece in the 50's. That was a lot of money. (I think I only got a buck once or twice.) 65 cents was about it most of the time, 75 or 80 was huge.
I also haven't seen an elk this winter, no tracks going down to my creek. Wolves??? They wouldn't eat all the Elk, would they??
By the way, the rabbit fur was used for making hats, when you buy a good hat it is marked with various amounts of X's, as in a "Ten X" or "Twenty X" That's how much rabbit hair is in the felt. Since I'm allergic to cats and rabbit hair, I buy genuine Beaver hats which don't bother me.
Another one of those strange things you learn on the forum, right???
I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know but wolves hunt in packs and it would not be a problem for them to kill an Elk. They would run it to death and then when exhausted they would move in for the kill. Other reasons you may not be seeing elk is lack of food. They will migrate to the food and with this harsh winter they may have moved out of your area in search of food.
We have had a very mild winter. There are close to a thousand wolves in Montana eating Elk, Deer, Cows, Sheep, whatever it takes and whatever they can find. Figure it takes as much food to sustain a Wolf as two German Shepherds and think about how much food it would take to feed even a thousand German Shepherds every day and you will know why the Elk population is down so much.
Not all Wolves hunt in packs. They do not run prey to death if they can help it. They just surround it and kill it. Check out you tube for some great videos on wolves. One was made in Wyoming but I can't think of the name of it.
It is fair to say that there is not as much domestic livestock depredation as one might expect given the Wolf population.
I offered Bob some fairly serious money for the lowering kit about 4 years ago, but he feels the car should be restored. It would be a tough project. I'm guessing it was pretty crude when it was built and time has taken it toll. It's the real thing put together with scrap from the ranch.
From what I've read, wolves are as lazy as anybody else. They'll eat what's easiest and handiest, meaning smaller critters like mice, rabbits, marmots, prairie dogs, etc., along with larger animals like cows, sheep, and elk. When folks say wolves will kill off all the deer and elk I tell them yeah, that's why those animals didn't exist in North America and didn't appear until people with guns killed off the wolves and made it safe for them.
Watch this and then see what you think. These are a totally different animal than was here before. These are Canadian Gray Wolves that were introduced into an ecosystem that preciously had a smaller,less dominant Wolf in it.
It is said that over half of the hunting outfitters in Montana have gone out of business since the introduction of the Wolf. There are just not many Elk to hunt.
Everybody has their own opinion about this, most are based on romance rather than reality. There are a lot of reasons why the Wolf has been delisted as an endangered species and why Montana, Wyoming and Idaho have reinstated hunting seasons on them.
Watch this: www.cryingwolfmovie.com
All I know is ,I wish somebody else had the coyotes that the wildlife folks apparently turned loose around here a while back.Noisy things are killing off calf's and peoples cats and anything else they can find.And the deer are more popular than ever.Just haven't been chased by a wild hog in a couple years is the good thing.
The plural of Wolf is Wolves.
If this is the worst thread drift you ever encounter on this forum ............
It is also not a possessive form of the noun and needs no apostrophe.
When I lived in Minnesota in the sixties there were wolves in the north that could grab newborn calves and run with them in their mouths.
They were not real huge or long, but their heads were real wide, and they had strong muscles.
Maybe called timber wolves, I have forgotten for sure what they were called.
They had pretty much wiped out the mouse and elk north of Lake Superior.
Interesting cross thread from the geezer test thread:
As a result of his work on Zoo Parade Perkins was offered the job in 1963 for which most Americans remember him: host of the nature show Wild Kingdom. The fame he gained in his television career allowed Perkins to become an advocate for the protection of endangered species, and through Wild Kingdom he gave many Americans their first exposure to the conservation movement. Perkins also helped establish The Wild Canid Survival and Research Center (WCSRC) near St. Louis in 1971. This wolf sanctuary has been instrumental in breeding wolves for eventual re-placement into their natural habitats.
Stan ;;; We could compare the wolves to republicans, the coyotes to Democrats (or the other way around because I need to be politically correct, and do not want to offend anyone) and compare the sheep to the american public. Now that would be a thread drift to remember ... I should also mispell more of the text and talk about Obamma .........
stan, in the late 90's i sold 2 diamond t rtucks to a guy from bozeman, same guy maybe?
transmission is 490 chev. charley
It SOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! $2995 on the Buy-It-Now!!
drifting off thread, but today on my little local radio i heard 2 guys from minnesota went to big sky to pick up a antique truck "bought on the internet".it seems it wasn't quite what they were expecting, and in the ensuing argument one of em pulled a gun on the seller! no shots fired , and the case ended today with charges on the buyers. happened this fall, you montana guys hear of it?
sure Bob gets high bucks for hi stuff but I sometimes think his buddy Tracy goes him one better
most anyone who has been involved on e-bay for any length of time should know toysanyone is Bob Woodburn
Clayton I haven't heard anything but will check around.
One question to the new owner. Can you say Money Pit?.........Sure you can!
Clayton, I've heard a little rumor about that but don't know any details. I'll bet there's more to that story than came out in the first telling.
Dale, everybody in the car biz knows Tracy. These guys figured out something years ago that I never did: If you have something somebody wants or needs and it is made out of semi-unobtainium -- they will more than likely pay top dollar for it, whatever you decide top dollar is. And; if they don't buy it there will be somebody else who will pay that or more for it. A good part is better than money in the bank.
The other thing they know that we never did is that when you live in a poor state like Montana used to be and were always poor and broke yourself, what seemed like big money to us was a smoking cheap deal to some out of state guy with lots of money. Those guys got out and saw some of the world when they were young and came back smarter about a lot of things than those of us who just stayed here and tried to make a living and get ahead a little. They went and saw places where there was money and met some of the people who had it. They figured out that selling expensive things to people with money is a lot more profitable than selling cheap stuff to people with very little money who are watching every penny. They also don't deal in stuff we deal in. They deal in Packards and Kissels and rare, unusual and exotic parts and accessories. Me??? I'm going out to the shop to work on Model T carburetors and trying to sell an International pickup on ebay.
It took me years to figure out that you can always come down on the price and the guy who is wanting a deal is probably far richer than I will ever be and got that way at least partly by beating people down on the price. I've had multi-millionaires tell me they won't buy a carburetor unless I throw in the shipping for free. (Not many, most people are really good to deal with -- I'm really happy with 99.9% of the people I deal with and got several Christmas cards this year from people I did carbs for -- how nice is that!)
I'm older than either Bob or Tracy. So soon we get old and so late we get smart.
I did sell a nice set of carburetors the other day that will pay my power bill for the month. I'm not exactly starving as anybody who's seen a recent photo of me could attest to.
I'm thinking TWO guys who came to Montana carrying a gun and pulled it on the seller may be spending a little more time here, perhaps hosted by the local constabulary. One guy -- they probably wouldn't have said much. Two guys -- one of them with a gun, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Be interesting to find the story somewhere and see what really went on.
It's easy to find on the internet. Just google antique truck gun Montana. Apparently some state rep from Minnesota came to Livingston to buy an old Bronco and got in a spittin match with the seller. His buddy pulled a gun and pointed it at the seller, his wife and kids. Probably wouldn't have made the news if the buyer hadn't been Republican state Senator from Minnesota.
What is happening to good "old fashioned" morals???
The rep isn't charged with anything??
There is a cancer in politics from the top down...no?
I heard an interview with the author who came up with the term affluenza, the attitude of privilege and entitlement some folks get from being rich. He said it was meant as a description/explanation, not an excuse. He said rich criminals should get the same treatment as everybody else. But in the real world that's not the way things go.
It's back up for sale.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-Model-T-Ford-Race-Car-Speedster-Roadster-Racer-Boat -Tail-Torpedo-Rajo-Roof-/181300758448?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&has h=item2a365e07b0&vxp=mtr
I think the BS story is the best part of lt! Bud.
I was going to say, I have a nice running gear less the radiator with a title for $2500.00
I guess it was some kid in Holland who was just "playing around with ebay."
Happens a lot on ebay but not so much as it used to. I sold an Alma Camp trailer one time and after a week of no response I got an email from a woman who said her husband had Alzheimers and he just "liked to buy things on ebay" and that he would forget all about in a day or two and she would have to email all the sellers and tell them he wasn't buying anything, just "having fun."
Stan,There used to be a trailer factory in Alma Mi.I bought much of the used rail road iron from it to make a root rake for a small dozer i had.Small world?? Bud.
I keep looking at the pictures,but I don't see $2900 worth of anything there. The tranny and steering are worth some bucks,but the other stuff is way to far gone.JMHO.
Refer to: Barnum, P. T.
Amen to that!