Modern seal for cam shaft

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Modern seal for cam shaft
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philippe BROST, France on Saturday, January 11, 2014 - 03:46 pm:

I am rebuilding the engine of my 1913/1914 touring. I order modern seals for crankshaft and camshaft to avoid leaks.
How does the seal fit for the cam shaft ? There is only a groove in the cover for the felt. Must the cover be machined to open the groove one side ? Is it a non standard cover ? I coulnd't find anything within this forum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 11, 2014 - 04:11 pm:

If it were mine I would just use the felt seal and live with the small (maybe) leak.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, January 11, 2014 - 04:12 pm:

The seals are not designed to work with the early style covers like yours. Work a felt in the groove. A little oil seeping out into the timer isn't a bad thing. You'll be fine. IMHO, it'd be a shame to machine the cover to accept the modern seal.
BTW, its hard to find the seal for that cover, the ones supplied by the parts vendors for later style covers don't fit. I had to fashion one from a rear axle felt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 01:13 am:

Philippe, I have the same cover you do and used a modern seal but it may have been a different size OD. Sorry I can't remember exactly since it wasn't an issue, I guess. Maybe it was set in with Ultra Black.
Hey after you put your cover back you really should put on a modern seal on that crank while you have it out and cleaned off. It'll never leak there either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 10:15 am:

Phillipe,

Many of us appreciate the Model T for what it is. You have a lovely set of original straight cut timing gears. They will work perfectly for many lifetimes. They will be quiet. Some people think because the gears are not new they should be replaced. This kind of thinking results in a lot of parts being replaced by people who mean well, but don't have any experience using a Model T that is not modified.

Your car has its original timing cover. If you leave it there, it will be there for the next owner to enjoy. You should install the felt seal. It works fine. If you need to wipe off a bit of oil after driving the car several hundred miles you will gain more respect for the excellent Ford engineering and its reliability.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 10:15 am:

If I were you with that engine, I would go ahead and use the felt. There is no pressure up there, and if you use a Ford timer I doubt if you'd have a problem. If you can find a '15 style front cover, they are exactly the same as yours, except you can use that seal you have. I haven't checked, but the front cover was changed in 16 or 17 to a longer spout, which enabled the owner to pour in oil more quickly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philippe BROST, France on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 04:15 am:

Thank you for all advice
I have put home made felt now. I will put also felt for crankshaft because I understand that with a modern seal I cannot take off the front cover without disassembling the lower crankcase.
Even if there is no oil pressure there is always some pressure inside the engine due to leaks around the piston and this gives the oil leaks; but oil is not so expensive.
I like these straight gears but I think no vendors are selling replacement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 11:59 am:

Philippe.. I've heard that's not exactly true about cover removal But for no leaks install the seal on the Outside of the cover. You can search here instructions how to do it. Basically use the Ultra Black to glue it to the cover between the pulley. Form the seal to fit and turn it backwards. You can't see it and you won't have any leaky oil from the front.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 01:03 pm:

The model A style rope seal is better than the felt if you don't want to use a modern seal for the crank shaft. Both halves has to be trimmed to fit in a Model T. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/1466


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 06:31 pm:

You learn something new every day. I had never seen the front cover plate without the groove for the felt oil seal. A picture of the later version is shown below complete with the seal and the part number (for future ref).

When did the groove first appear?
For purest among the forum members, this is an old cover plate which was modified by someone, not me, to retain a distributor...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 07:47 pm:

I have three early covers. Two have the groove, one doesn't; it is identical to Philippe's. Probably they were made by different manufacturers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rodney Aspenson on Monday, January 13, 2014 - 08:12 pm:

I used a modern seal and slathered some black silicone around it to hold it in place... worked fine...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 02:59 pm:

There ya go Rodney, That's what I was suggesting and also with one on the outside of the cover for the crank seal.

Of course this for those that don't like oil leaking and blowing all back under the whole car.

Try it you'll like it. it don't show either that's what I like


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