1915 Roadster Tail Light Bracket

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 1915 Roadster Tail Light Bracket
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Memmelaar Jr on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 09:08 am:

Can someone give me the proper location of the mounting of the tail light bracket for a 1915 Roadster


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 10:26 am:






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 10:31 am:

That is the incorrect bracket for your car, Steve - that is a "Touring" bracket. The correct one mounts on the BACK panel with two bolts - I posted photos of the correct 2 pc. '15 - '16 brackets a while back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 10:36 am:

So that's one more thing wrong on this car. Maybe I should post detailed pictures of everything on it so I can make up a list of things to change.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 10:49 am:

On my unrestored '17 roadster. Location is the same on 1915 and 1916. Only difference is that 1915 had a two piece bracket while 1917 has a one piece bracket.

Note that the nuts are on the outside (and lack of quality control in the length of the bolts).

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 10:57 am:

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/922

Here's the bracket.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 11:05 am:

The Snyder's bracket fits 1915 through 1919 but it is not correct for 1915 or 1916 which each had their own, two piece bracket.

For 1915 the license plate holder was bolted to the bracket. For 1916 the license plate holder was riveted to the bracket.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 11:51 am:

Thanks for adding the photo, Erik.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 12:03 pm:

Here is the correct 1915 runabout tail lamp bracket:



There is also another design with the license bracket piece riveted on, instead of with the nut. Here it is for a touring car:







The two piece bracket carries p/n T7471 A
and the riveted piece is p/n T7471, which indicates it is the earlier of the two.

: ^ )

Keith

: ^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 12:24 pm:

Previously posted:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/412879.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 12:38 pm:





I don't know if these help at all. May be later than '15 and the rusty ones have been re drilled. The Black car has a new panel but is where I determined the holes should be from that info I had.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 06:20 pm:

FWIW -- The "Roadster" bracket was also used on the Coupelet, and the "Touring" one was used on the Sedan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 08:25 pm:

Steve-
I've pondered the riveted -vs- bolted two-piece tail lamp bracket for a long, long time. I have not found any reference to it in any of my literature.

It would make sense that they would eliminate one nut to make it cheaper, thus be the later produced part.

However, the part number is what got me thinking. The Ford part number update method was to assign a suffix letter to a redesigned part (p/n T1234 was followed by T1234A, which was followed by T1234B, etc.) Consequently, p/n T7471A (nut type) would follow p/n T7471 (riveted type).

Does anyone who has either of these two-piece tail lamp brackets have different part numbers on them?

I'd love to see definitive documentation about these two different two-piece tail lamp brackets through the 1915-16 production and/or examples on unrestored cars.

Inquiring minds want to know!

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 10:22 pm:

I've got several of each type - I'll check them all for cast-in numbers - interesting Keith !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 08:46 pm:

FYI - my riveted Runabout/Couplet 2 pc. license bracket has a cast in part number of T 7471 A, which does not correlate with Keith's part number noted above ?

The number cast into the 2 pc. separate piece that mounts to the Runabout/Couplet bracket is 9565.

The Touring bracket as above has a part number 7259.

I'm assuming those are "factory" numbers - not part numbers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 12:51 pm:

Keith - did you see this addendum ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 04:01 pm:

Hmmm...

Maybe the T 7471 and the T 7471 A were made concurrently by different manufacturers?

I'll get all mine out and look at the forging markings.

For everyone-
If you have a riveted or nut type two-piece tail lamp bracket, what are the part numbers on your parts?

: ^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 05:40 pm:

I have only one '15 bracket in stock, and it has no A. It does have a manufacturer's mark, a superimposed C and H. I currently have two '16 Touring/Sedan brackets, and both of them have the A and no maker's mark.

It seems to me that I have seen some '15 brackets with the A, but I don't have any to prove it. I sold my last "extra" one to Mike Black for his Touring last summer. Hey, Mike -- crawl under your car and see whether that bracket has an A on it. :-)

Also, in digging around in my parts stash, I found a tail lamp bracket similar to the '15 Touring one, but it has about a 6" drop from the mounting surface to the tail lamp part. It has no license plate piece, but it looks like it would work with one of them. I suspect it was made for a truck, which Ford didn't make until '17. Did they use a bracket like that? It would have been easier and cheaper to make one like this and use a '15/'16 license plate piece with it, rather than making a one-piece part for a low-volume application. This is speculation, of course, but it makes some sense to me. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 05:46 pm:

Steve, that rear panel on your roadster looks pretty clean, is there any evidence in the metal or wood that the "correct" bracket was ever mounted on it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 06:31 pm:

Mike-
I was kinda avoiding that oddity. But since you mentioned it, here it is:





I don't own this, so can tell you any part number.

: ^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 06:54 pm:

Keith,

The bracket night be for a "low rider" :-)
Seriously, I also think it is for a truck. The 3 bolt rather than 2 bolt mount would fit on the truck bed support member better than a car body. Just my 2 cents.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 07:18 pm:

I also have one of those, Keith. I believe Bob McD. used a pair for tail lamps on one of his T'.s


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 07:47 pm:

Your correct Steve, I used a pair on my pu. one came off a TT Fire truck in Alaska the other one found at a swap meet. Always thought they were for a TT.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, January 17, 2014 - 08:33 pm:

Keith -- Yes, that looks just like the one I have. Since you and Steve T. and I all have one, they must be fairly common. Must've been for a Ford of some kind. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Saturday, January 18, 2014 - 11:30 pm:

Here's my original 15 roadster...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Saturday, January 18, 2014 - 11:31 pm:

Mr. Jelfs mount appears to be for a touring car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warwick Landy on Saturday, January 18, 2014 - 11:56 pm:

Steve Jelf, Look on the bright side, by the time you have everything right on your 15' you will have enough spare parts to build a correct 1920!
Thankyou for posting all the problems and parts you have solved on your car. It helps us all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 12:56 pm:

Steve -- It like like your "original '15" has a '17 or later tail lamp bracket on it. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 12:58 pm:

Oops -- That should read "looks like" not "like like."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 01:10 pm:

OK Mike, I crawled under my 15 touring and it is T7471A, with the nut. To add to the confusion, why do the touring and roadster have the same part number when they are different parts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 01:52 pm:

The license plate holder is the same - the body bracket is different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 09:12 pm:

Mike
I think the question was for proper mounting location...
I said the car was original....Can't swear that the bracket is, but I'll bet money that the holes were drilled by a Ford employee... How about the hardware is it correct? Royce seemed to think so in an earlier post, heck I don't know...?
I'd say any 99 year old car has a couple parts changed out here and there.
My left rear fender has had a beating at some point in time, probably how the bracket got changed out just if I was guessing, hey wouldn't it be great if these old cars could talk.. WoW what a story they would tell.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 09:23 pm:

Steve -- Sorry, I misunderstood the purpose of your post. After all the thread drift about which bracket is which, you surprised me by getting back to the original question of mounting location. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 09:38 pm:

Mike,the C-H on yours probably stands for Cleveland Hardware. They made a lot of castings and bocoo top bows.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 10:01 pm:

Not a problem here Mike.... Remember there's No tone to text posted here, or emails, easy misunderstood hope you don't think I was being a turd to you either.
John was hunting the correct location to mount his lamp that's the way I read it. We're still good as far as I'm concerned..ol'buddy.
I think the 2 piece bracket Keith posted is the first one I've ever seen, gives me something else to hunt now...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 07:57 pm:

Okay. My turn to muddy the waters.
For my '15 runabout project, last year (April), I bought a bracket at Bakersfield. So out of curiosity, I dug it out of a box I have a bunch of parts for in that car.
It is a two (?) piece with the license bracket held on bolt-like with a castle nut. It is moderately rusty and looks very original.
The number on it is "T7471" (NO "A"). Backwards of what Kieth had reported. But more likely the earlier number which would be correct for '15. The maker's mark is there, but hard to read due to size and rust. There is no doubt to the number due to its larger size.
Speculation about the number? Why would the same type bolt-on license bracket either have the "A" or not? Why would the same number without the "A" be found on both the bolted and riveted types? The same casting could have been used for both mounting methods maybe?

Our computer was upgraded a couple weeks ago, and now several things are not working. Including our photos because everything is on a too old Corel program. So no photo posting for a lille while. I hate computer people.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 09:48 pm:

I believe the same casting (or forging, whatever) could be used for either the bolt method or the peening method. Just thread it for the nut, or shorten it and peen it for the '16 type. But that still doesn't explain why there are two different numbers, when both numbers appear on both types of mountings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 12:12 pm:

What years and models had the red side light? I have two spares in my collection and they are both white. I also have an oil tail light with an electric socket fitted in it, it looks like a semi professional job of good quality. The tail lamp is complete with faunt red lens to the rear and white to the side. I also have a brass trim lamp 15 era with the brass door opening sideways, the rest of the lamp assembly is identical with no ident on it. There was at least four us makers and at least two Canadian makers one being CASCO. There are some minor differences to the housings and faunts, some will interchange and some won't. I have never done a study on all the lamps, manufacturers, models etc. But it would be interesting if anybody has the info.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 10:44 pm:

You can read all about them here:

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/I-O.htm#lamps


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