Exhaust Manifold Warp and Exhaust Port Erosion

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Exhaust Manifold Warp and Exhaust Port Erosion
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Corts on Saturday, January 18, 2014 - 08:17 pm:

Here are two problems that I would like to find a solution to regarding my Early 1922 Touring Car.

The first picture shows the exhaust manifold. The manifold is not warped vertically, that has been checked and all the holes line up. But You can see the highlighted area in the photo showing the amount of warp-age where the port does not lay flat on ant flat surface. This could be due to the middle ports being bent in slightly but regardless of what port or ports are the problem, the manifold is warped some. What is the best way to fix this type of warp. My Idea was to place it on a flat iron beam and clamp each port with a C-Clamp and tighten each clamp as you heat the manifold hot, just as you do when taking out the typical hump back warp in the manifold. Any other good ideas here.

Exhaust Manifold Warp

The Second problem and Picture are of my engine block. You can see the rear exhaust port and its erosion problem. I am not ready to take the engine out of the car so would like the best solution to build up the port so I can get some semblance of a seal here. Will JB weld hold up in this area it is good to around 600 degrees I'm told? I was also told that the temperature in this location would only be around 400 - 600 degrees do to the heat dissipation of the entire block and the water jacket that runs close to the exhaust ports. Will JB weld work here or is there a better fix available that will withstand the heat?

Exhaust Port Erosion

Thanks for the help everyone.

Adam Corts
Missoula, Montana


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Saturday, January 18, 2014 - 08:53 pm:

Not an in car fix,but your block can be fitted with a Chevy valve seat to repair that area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Kramer on Saturday, January 18, 2014 - 10:16 pm:

I would take the ex manifold to a machine shop and have them grind the four ports flat. Jack has a great way to fix the block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Saturday, January 18, 2014 - 10:44 pm:

Use the six individual rings and the copper rings. This will make the corrosion around the exhaust quite irrelevant. Do not use the 3 in 1, It if you have it machined flat then the center hols will need boring out. Unless you have the necessary equipment, it is probably cheaper to buy a new one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 07:59 am:

Adam, until you can do Jack's permanent fix, there is a satisfactory cure for the problem in the meantime. Certainly use the six individual rings as tony suggested. These are essential in keepin the manifold ports in line. However, the copper rings may not be sufficient to make a good seal. Your rear port is eroded, and the manifold is warped away from the block, so the gap at the rear will perhaps be too wide for a copper gasket to fill.

Contrary to Tony's warning about using the three-in-one gaskets, these could be the saviour in this circumstance. But you need to cut them up into six separate rings. I use these in conjunction with a silica based exhaust sealant. Trial fit the manifold first. You may be able to use a double thickness ring on that rear port to take up the erosion/warpage. I fit the rings in the manifold first, apply the sealant next and then the gasket ring. The sealant helps to hold it all together. Then apply a similar bead of sealant to the next side of the gasket and fit it up to the block. The excess sealant will be squeezed out and can be wiped away before firing the motor up to cure the sealant.

It works well for me. I do not know what the product is called in the US, but here in OZ it is called Maniseal.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 08:48 am:

It is called "The Right Stuff" at auto part stores here. Not cheap, I think it was $14 for an aerosol tube recently. Works really well, I would never install a hogshead without it again.

Also available as OEM branded stuff (Ford, Honda, Toyota etc) at even higher prices from your nearest dealership.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 10:53 am:

I wonder how straight that orange piece of Communist Chinese steel is?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 11:14 am:

Here is a picture of what we did to a block with severe erosion around the exhaust ports.

We machined the surface to get it as smooth as possible.

We made an insert to fit in the severely eroded port. It is offset and fits into a groove machined into the block. The Manifold will hold it in place.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 06:12 pm:

Royce, if you were responding to my post re 'Maniseal' to seal around exhaust fittings, your Right Stuff is not a similar product. Maniseal comes in a tube, is white like toothpaste and is thicker in consistency than toothpaste. It could never come from an aerosol. Perhaps a muffler putty would be a better match.

The stuff dries hard once cured, is fire proof, but is easily cleaned up when subsequent repairs/refitting are necessary. I carry some in the T toolbox all the time.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 06:48 pm:

I prefer the rings and glands, but when you can't use them, I prefer this stuff. I get it at my local auto parts store.

http://img.tjskl.org.cn/pic/z1b15b83-0x0-1/exhaust_gasket_materials_exhaust_gask et_sheet_exhaust_manifold_gasket_material.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Corts on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 04:28 pm:

Thanks for the replies everyone. I am still looking into some in car fixes that do not require pulling the engine. I do plan to use the 6 rings and copper washers when I do install the manifold. I may have to use some extra sealing to make up for the erosion. I will look into the products mentioned.

But in my searching, I have found a few more permanent fixes to the problems, if your willing to pull the engine. Apparently you can weld the cast iron and build up the area and then mill it down, making it just like new. You must preheat the block in-order to do this correctly so there is no cracking or exploding when you weld. Here is a link to a company that will do the welding. They heat the block in an oven and weld it while still in the oven.

http://www.midwestcylinderhead.com/

If you want to save that casting number and serial number for your original car and have the repair look original, this might be a good choice.

Bob, I checked the Communist Chinese steel for flatness and it checked out but I know what you mean and it was an easier photo prop than the glass sheet I was using.

Anyone have any comments on my method for straightening the manifold? I want to clamp it to an I-beam with c-clamps over each port and heat the manifold with a torch until it sits flat on the beam.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 04:35 pm:

Adam - First, got your "PM" message the other day and meant to tell you "thanx",.....(so now I did!)

I believe it's the Tulsa Model T Club that has done extensive research and has written a lot in regard to manifold straightening. I've seen something on that here in the forum, quite some time ago,....perhaps you can find that by using the keyword function here on the forum, or, maybe somebody reading this thread will post it,....FWIW,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Green, Dexter, Mi on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 04:41 pm:

Take a look at:

http://mtfctulsa.com/Tech/manifold.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 05:10 pm:

Every one I've ever tried to straighten has broken.
I think I don't have enough heat available here.
You need a couple rosebuds like (I think) the Tulsa site says.
But after they broke I veed the break and brazed them back together using an old block for a fixture...gland rings but no gasket.
Not real pretty but work just fine.
Have fun and good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 06:22 pm:

Adam, the welding repair is the way to go if you then intend a full rebuild by re-metalling the bearings, boring and honing the block etc. Otherwise, the heating process will undo all that work on an otherwise good block.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Corts on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 08:48 pm:

That is true Allan. I should have included that in my post. I spoke with the guys at Midwest Cylinder Head and they explained that the heating process will melt out the babbitt bearings in the block. You would only want to use this approach if you planned a complete rebuild.


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