Old Photo - Old Ford Meets New Ford

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Old Photo - Old Ford Meets New Ford
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 10:24 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 10:53 am:

May,

Thanks for posting. My guess is a Model S runabout. If the trunk is rounded instead of pointed, a Model R. It looks to me like a 1925 license plate, so an early 1926 T?

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 10:56 am:

I'm switching my guess to Model R. The wheels look like 30 inch beside the T tires, and the trunk may be a bit deeper and more rounded.

Also, it looks like it has Firestone mechanically fastened tires/rims, not clinchers, and I thought Firestone and Ford went to all clinchers by 1908 (but not sure on that one).

Hap, Jerry, etc., what do you think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 10:58 am:

I find the tudor interesting too, as the lady has already had a Ruckstell and an accessory stop light installed before even getting a spare tire! Note also, no tie bar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 11:14 am:

The fenders and running boards look like R to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave DeYoung ......... Stoughton, WI on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 02:05 pm:

I wouldn't mind finding one of those accessory brake lights.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 02:22 pm:

Dave, Here's a similar one from our collection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 03:57 pm:

BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front): I’m 99.99% sure it is a photo of a 1906 Model N Runabout that has had running boards added.

DISCUSSION/BACKGROUND:

I also used to look at that photo and think Model S Runabout or possibly Model R Runabout. But after a few more years of looking at the N, R, S, & SR cars it is easier to see a few features I missed previously.

The photo below clearly shows the Front Fender Rear Irons part # 892 1/2 that were “ONLY” used on the Model N Runabout. The other R, S, and SR cars that came with a running board mounted the back of the front fender to the running board – similar to the Model T – which also only had a front fender mount and connected the rear of the fender to the running board.



You can also tell that the rear trunk is pointed as it disappears much faster than the Model R trunk – although often times it is hard to tell which is which based on the angle etc. I hope some day to have someone put the trunk dimensions into a CAD program so we can see what the trunk would look like from different angles for both the N & S compared to the R trunk.

Given that clue that it has the N part # 892 1/2 front fender rear iron, you can see that the rear fender is actually a Model N fender – note how it goes more up at the rear rather than following the curve of the wheel. And looking closer at the front fenders you can tell they are the N “plow share” fenders rather than the R or S front fenders that have an actual flat area on top at the front. Below is a photo of a Model R and you can see the shape of the Model R Runabout and Model S Runabout fenders. They used the exact same fenders, running boards and brackets to attach them to both the R & S Runabout. The S Roadster (SR) used different fenders, splash shield, and running boards and brackets. Below is a Model R for comparison.





So we know the car is a Model N Runabout. How do we establish 1906 versus 1907 or 1908?
The 28 x 2 1/2 inch mechanically fastened tires and rims were only available on the early 1906 cars. When the price was increased to $600 the standard tires and wheels became the 28 x 3 inch clincher wheels. Also the body was a little bit smaller (we probably could not tell that in a photo) but the top irons came through the back of the front seats rather than the top of the front seats. Both of those items together would make it a 1906 style.



Additionally the same photo was published in the Feb 1926 “Ford Pictorial” with the caption, “An old timer, a 1906 Ford, and an Improved Ford Tudor sedan pass on the Pacific Highway. The old car is owned by Sam Allen of Puyallup, Wash., and it can do 25 miles an hour on the road.”

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 04:25 pm:

Wow, Hap, I am mightily impressed! I have just learned so much more about a model 'N' and even some of the changes through its production run. Thank you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 05:17 pm:

Neat pic - sort of a "passing of the torch" from one era to another.

And Hap, thanks again for teaching me something new. Between you and some of the other posters on this forum, I am building my knowledge of early Fords. Information I would be hard pressed to find anywhere else.

I love this place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 06:07 pm:

Hap, good eye! I dismissed it as an early N quickly because of the right side hood door. However, all the other evidence you point out says otherwise. Your the master. :-)
Thanks for posting,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 06:28 pm:

Hap, you never fail to amaze me!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 09:30 pm:

BLUF: (Bottom Line Up Front) Thanks guys! I learn so much from what folks share on the forum, in e-mails, articles, books etc. and I hope I can be of some help to others also.

BACKGROUND/DISCUSSION:

By the way technically the early Fords are not exactly off topic. While they are not Model Ts the “1903-1909 Early Ford Registry” is one of the Model T Ford Club of America chapters (see the listing at: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm ). And it is often interesting to note items that were tested out on the earlier cars and later incorporated on the T. Notice how close the N, R, S, and SR rear axle housings look like the 1915-1925 rear axle housings.

That door on the right side of the hood in the original photo of the Model N Runabout, is one of many things I am hoping to learn more about. It could be as simple as they damaged the original hood and purchased a used hood from a Model R, S, or SR. Those came with doors on that side in about the center of the hood. They also could have purchased the “door” for the hood for a $1 brand new – part number 886 and had it installed. I do not think there was a reason Ford USA would have put a door on the right side of the hood of a Model N. But an owner could have found it helpful for adjusting the force feed oiler etc. I do NOT think the hood has been installed on the car backwards (they will fit … don’t ask me how I know that) but the doors do not line up properly for flooding the carburetor (small button/lever to push the carburetor float down so more gas would come into the carb. It served a similar purpose of the later “choke” butterfly – they both in-riched the mixture for starting. If the hood had been placed on backwards, the door would have been closer to the radiator rather than basically centered like it is above the hood handle. And when placed on correctly the door on the left side is closer to the firewall to make it easier to access the carburetor.

I also like what the Price List of Parts for 1908 says about part number 875 the hood. “State length and color” – why length? Because the width of the radiators varied enough to need different hoods depending on what width radiator your car had. And Rootlieb at: http://www.rootlieb.com/html_files/nrs/nrs.html states, “specify year and style, indicate placement of doors and overall length.“

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cutoff


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 09:51 pm:

Hap,
I can confirm the hood shape changed as the later radiator came into use. Our Model N has a later radiator (as of the 1925 photo, and it's still in use). However, our hood does not fit properly in the front, as the "shoulders" of the hood are too short for the later radiator (probably the original radiator froze, collided into, etc). As a result, the hood has a few amateur bends in it to force it to fit.

I've found an original early radiator I intend to put on our car at some point, and the original hood bends fit it perfectly.

Thank you again for sharing your information and research,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 11:33 pm:

I have a similar accessory stop light on my early 26 Tudor (November 1925).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 11:41 pm:

I have a similar accessory stop light on my early 26 Tudor (November 25). It works well.


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