Horn button

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Horn button
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Eddie on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 01:11 pm:

My 26 Tudor has the horn button attached to the steering wheel nut. The wires pass through the spokes. I have the button in place however there are no switch components.

Anybody know who supplies parts for the horn button, all I have is the button housing and the button itself, no spring or contacts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 02:14 pm:

Dave as far as I know I don't think anyone is reproducing the component you are missing. The vendors have the horn button.

Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steve miller- mississauga,ontario on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 02:31 pm:

is the internals of the US model the same?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 02:35 pm:

Dave, You say the horn button is part of the steering wheel nut, and not the regular button assembly attached to the steering column tube. If that is the case, you likely have an APCO accessory horn button/steering wheel nut, for which there are no reproduction parts. New and usable used ones come up for sale periodically on Ebay. I would advise if this is the type that you have, that you look for one on Ebay. I may have an extra one, but it may be weeks before I can look for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 02:40 pm:

I don't believe so Steve.
Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 02:48 pm:

I would think that Dave has a Canadian built car and they used a horn set up like the earlier magneto horns had.

Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steve miller- mississauga,ontario on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 02:51 pm:

Terry,
The horn button used on Canadian made cars was mounted by 2 screws directly over the nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 03:02 pm:

That was a different nut on the Canadian cars than on an American car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Eddie on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 03:19 pm:

That's it Steve. Mine is a 26 Canadian car with the horn button as per your picture,...At least now I have an idea of what the components look like

Thanks, Dave Eddie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 03:52 pm:

Two more pictures.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 05:23 pm:

Steve, I learn something new almost every day on this forum. I did not know that Canadian 26-27's had a wheel mounted button; but then Texas is a long way from Canada and I don't claim to know everything about Canadian T's except that there were many differences.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 05:38 pm:

This forum is amazing I learn something every day on here, just like I learned from this post... There are different nuts behind the wheel in Canada and the United states.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 06:06 pm:

Terry, that style of horn button was on our Canadian sourced cars long before 26-27s. The magneto horn used in 1915 used the same switch, but it was screwed to the top of the column, as in the US cars. When it migrated to the steering wheel nut, the tabs through which the mounting screws pass, were simply left un-bent, and the screws were threaded into two flats on the nut John showed.
When this change was made I don't know, perhaps when the battery horn was introduced.

The wiring looks untidy, and you'd be forgiven for thinking they would get in the way and be subject to continual breaking, but in 50 years of tinkering with Ts, I have only had to bare a new end and re-connect the wire less than a handful of times.

Another difference is the steering wheel spiders on our Canadian cars are all forgings, not the pressed steel ones from US cars.

For your info.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 06:14 pm:

Dave, if you make the contacts as shown in John's last photos, the curved top contact needs to be fairly springy. The nearest material I can readily think of would be one of the original coilbox contacts. Perhaps you could fashion what you need from a bottom contact strip. That stuff is tough, so it may be easier to use a Dremel tool to fashion it rather than trying to use snips/cutters.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 06:56 pm:

This is the magneto horn button assemble that Allan has described in the previous posting. I have to support Allan's remarks regarding the ( untidy Wiring ). I to have had this set up on the two T's I have owned over the last 47 years.

Regards, John




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Eddie on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 07:54 pm:

Thanks gentlemen.....you guys are a wealth of knowledge.
Good news, went back to my shop this afternoon, and attached to the end of a wiring harness I had aquired was the afore mentioned switch components.
AH HA ! it's a good day


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 08:25 pm:

My RHD 24 Tudor had the steering wheel hub button.

I bought a T8028X column mounted button assembly and I'm pretty sure the guts were the same as for the hub button.

I end up fitting the T8028X as is on the steering column as it looks tidier.

If I can remember where I put the old hub button I'll verify the T8028X switch fits.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 08:26 pm:

Dave,

I noticed this is your 8th posting so a belated welcome aboard. If you go to http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/69100.html it has a series of photos showing how the Canadian horn parts fit together. Feel free to skip a lot at the beginning as we were still trying to sort things out. It also discussed how a few folks have reproduced the horn button using wood and painting it black. Note the magneto and the battery powered horn buttons were wired a little differently. And there is one picture of the horn button mounted on a new 1926 Canadian coupe [two wires – but they are at the top because the steering wheel is partially turned] which would have been a battery powered horn the same as on 1926 – 27 Fordor.

Good luck with your project. Also if you take a look at the firewall on the engine side about an inch below the radiator hood rod --- you may see a Canadian Assembly Plant letter and a number. If so please let me know what you find. See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/111490.html for details on the assembly plant numbers -- scroll down to the post at: By "Hap" (Harold) Tucker on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 08:35 pm: and that is where the Canadian information starts.

F for the main Canadian assembly plant at Walkerville
M for MONTREAL, QUEBEC
T for Toronto, Ontario
W for Winnipeg, Manitoba
V for Vancouver, British Columbia

Finally, if you are also new to Ts, please be sure to read some of the safety items. The T has served many folks well and safely for many years. But it has some known “safety gotchas” that can easily be avoided if you know about them. Please see:

Safety Glass is nice: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/72116.html

Use safety wire and not lock washers or cotter pins on the two studs holding the wishbone to the underside of the engine.

Lots of safety items http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/69429.html

Over center steering – shouldn’t happen on the later Ts (yours is a later T)– but if someone replaced your later teens steering gear housing or rebuilt it without the lock pin – it might happen: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/86345.html

Types of safety wire: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/41859.html

Example of loss of brakes caused by drive shaft failure: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/47804.html

Top T tips – many of them are safety related also: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/85208.html

Tour safety check list: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/44331.html

And if you have a gas hot water heater in the garage – be very very careful. The float in a Model T Carb will sometimes stick (or trash in the valve) and the carb will leak gasoline. Not too bad if there are no sparks – several homes, garages and cars have been lost when a gas hot water heater was near by and someone started the dishwasher other item that caused it to turn on the burner at the wrong time. Note gas fumes tend to be heavier than regular air …. so they tend to hug the floor. If you adjust your garage door to let the mice in and the air out – that is a temp work around. But replacing the gas fired hot water heater with an electric heater or having the gas one relocated away from the garage is the best thing

Even with a perfectly good and properly adjusted front steering system – if you back up the wheels can go full left or full right and pull the steering wheel out of your hand – so remember to back up slowly.

If someone rebuilt the front axle it is relatively easy to inadvertently swapped the front spring perches (they fit – they just don’t function as you wish they would). There is a left and a right spring perch that tilts the axle so the bottom of the axle is slightly ahead of the top of the axle (5 1/2 degrees positive caster on the cars before the balloon tires – and from memory not quite that much according to post for the later improved cars). If a T has negative to neutral caster it can cause a wild ride and also could cause the car to flip even at a slow speed see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/80333.html?1233523419 that shows the spring perch installed incorrectly and how the front axle looks then. Also see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40382.html

Also the rear axle thrust bearings if they are babbitt (originally supplied on the cars starting during 1915) and if they have some excess clearance can fail with minimal warning leaving the driver without the normal transmission brake (the main regular brake on a stock Model T). See the discussion at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/78685.html?1233159025 If you loose the brakes and you are on a flat area with minimal traffic – it is not nearly as bad as loosing them while going down hill towards a busy intersection. See the rear axle babbitt discussion part way down in the following thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/277093.html?1332591272

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/154102.html

Check a new (to you) car/truck out for any loose nuts or missing cotter pins or safety wire:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/281045.html?1334018895

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/393634.html

Again a T is a faithful servant but it has some known issues that the driver needs to be aware of and to take proper precautions about.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Borland. Bathurst. NSW. Australia. on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 10:23 pm:

G'day,
My '23 has the horn button on the wheel nut with the wiring looped to the column as shown above. No problems with the wiring, guess they just did it this way because it was easier .

Peter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Eddie on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 12:21 am:

I found the stamped numbers on the firewall below the radiator support rod.
F7438 so I understand this means "Bernice" was assembled in Walkerville, what do the rest of the numbers tell us?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 01:24 pm:

Dave,

Currently we still do not know what the numbers following the letter represent. That is one of the reason I have been working to gather information about them and how – if at all -- they relate to the engine serial numbers, casting dates, body style etc. I hope that some day we will be able to help someone who finds just a body with an assembly plant number such as yours and will be able to tell them the approximate date the body was mated to the chassis. But it may turn out that they are not in a logical order to help us determine that. I’ve sent you a private message via the forum.

If you believe your car still has the original engine would you please consider sending me the following information when the weather warms back up?

Engine serial number (xxx at the end is fine)
The serial number stamped onto the frame (originally it would have been the same as the engine number)
Casting date on the engine (usually to the right of the water inlet in a circle). See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/325787.html?1354635515
Casting date on the transmission cover if available

Please do NOT go out into the cold to find that information. I’ve been working on this for a while and I anticipate we will be working on it a while longer.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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