Wolves- more news

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Wolves- more news
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 08:24 pm:

I did a keyword search for the thread that we discussed the reintroduction of wolves to areas of the US. I couldn't find it.
I still wanted to ad this to it:

http://news.msn.com/us/judge-refuses-to-halt-wolf-trapping-in-idaho-wilderness

Herb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 09:04 pm:

I think in our lifetime, we will see the government helping us eradicate this introduced species, but in the meantime, I think that Central Park in New York should have several breeding packs so the people who want them here, can see them there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 09:05 pm:

How dare they kill the animals we want to kill?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 10:48 pm:

Against my better judgement, I am posting a comment or two.

First: The Wolves they show at the top of the article are little piddly Minnesota Wolves the size of a small German Shepherd. Many of our Wolves are twice that size. Search youtube or Facebook for some amazing photos of how big they really are. Six foot from nose to tail, 225-250 lbs.

Second: Gus, somebody is going to have to do something at some point. I think they eventually will have to admit how big the problem they introduced really is in the mountainous west.

Third: Anybody who thinks the re-introduction was and is such a good idea should volunteer to take a few breeding pairs and turn them loose in their cattle, sheep, goat herd or just your favorite fishing or camping spot.

Fourth: It was and is not all bad. There needed to be a re-balance of predator and prey in Yellowstone. They should have kept them confined to Yellowstone and it would have worked out pretty well. With massive penalties for killing or harassing Wolves for the first ten or so years they got out of hand and NOBODY has any more good ideas on how to take the Wolf population back down to reasonable levels without hunting and trapping. It is probably impossible to do with hunting and trapping at this point, let alone without it.

Five: People who do not or have not lived in the west have a romanticized notion of these animals. Make no mistake. These animals are the top predator in the west and will eliminate any and all threats to their domination. They kill to eat and they kill to keep any other predators out of their area. They eliminated the Coyotes in Yellowstone within two years, the Red Fox is virtually gone wherever there are wolves. They kill Black Bears and if possible will kill a Grizzly. The only predator that seems to have survived and even thrived in the face of the Wolf introduction is the Western Cougar. Probably because they can climb trees.

Six: Shipping to anywhere in the US would probably be less than $250 per Wolf since you can ship a dog just about anywhere for that. Anybody wants Wolves in their back yard, call Montana Fish and Game, I think they would be happy to send you a couple.

Seven: Had they introduced those little Minnesota Wolves they probably never would have been much of a problem. Instead they introduced the Canadian Grey Wolf, the most fearsome predator on the North American continent. Yes, more so than a Grizzly Bear. Because the Wolves are in packs, can run for hours without tiring and have excellent vision, all of which the Grizzly does not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Monday, January 20, 2014 - 11:35 pm:

There have been occasional sightings in the Black Hills, though SD State Game and Fish denies it. All we need are a breeding pair there and we'll have the problem here. It'll come, just a matter of time. They are smart and learn fast. I agree with you Stan. They should have introduced them into Central Park first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 12:02 am:

Stan,
I agree wholeheartedly with all your comments. I'd hate to be a little kid getting off the school bus in the winter in a somewhat remote area. We have the same problem here with dogooder politicians from the west side of the state. My feeling is if you want wolves live with wolves; don't foist them and all the problems they create on others. Very hypocritical.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 01:11 am:

Noel, there have been several sighted in the Hulett/Sundance area -- or so I have heard, I haven't seen any. The Black Hills is perfect habitat for them.

Dennis, people don't let their kids get off the bus by themselves in some areas. It's not just the Wolves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 07:37 am:

Here in northern WI, we are "blessed" with lots of those "little" wolves that are very adept at cleaning out deer from your favorite hunting area, killing dogs, and eating their fill of cattle for anyone trying to scratch a living off the poor ground up here. By their own estimation WI DNR says the their are three times too many wolves up here for the land to support. Yet, certain tree-hugger groups and some other interests keep trying to challenge and stop wolf hunts. You know it's getting bad when one DNR ranger I have met advises confidentially: "Shoot, shovel, and shut up".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 11:07 am:

I thought the first pictures of hunters holding up a giant wolf were photo shop scams. Then I went to a MTFWP meeting here and they showed a number of official photos that were the same. The Fish and Game warden said the few native wolfs from the Selkirk mountains were migrating in naturally if just left alone. They are much smaller. But once again, the Feds know best. What a mess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 11:26 am:

I'd agree with Stan on most points, but for "most fearsome predator on the North American continent" I'd say the wolf is a distant second. We're number one. Ask Martha.



As for killing off all the game animals, I have to wonder how Alaska and Canada still have huge herds of caribou. How was it that the first European settlers in North America encountered herds of bison and other game animals in mind-boggling numbers? How did that amazing profusion of wildlife exist without people keeping the wolves in check?

Wolves are not vegetarians and I don't doubt that they'll eat whatever critter is handy, whether it's an elk or a sheep or a poodle. But I'd suggest that they're less of a threat to wildlife than direct predation and habitat destruction by us.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 12:23 pm:

Without beating this dead horse any further,
this is actually about the "Greater Yellowstone Elk Population" as opposed to just Elk IN Yellowstone Park.




A Yellowstone-sponsored report from the mid-1990s stated "Fifteen North American wolf experts predicted that 100 wolves in Yellowstone would reduce the elk by less than 20 percent, 10 years after reintroduction." In reality, that number turned out to be 44 percent. If you look back at the elk count of 1994, the year before the start of the wolf reintroduction program, the size of the elk herd is now down by 80 percent!

Year Elk Population
2012 3,915
2011 4,174
2010 4,635
2009 6,070
2008 6,279
2007 6,738
2006 6,588
2005 9,545
2004 8,335
2003-02 9,215
2001 11,969
2000 13, 400 (prior to late season elk hunt)
1999 14,538 (prior to late season elk hunt)
1998 11,742
1997 no count taken
1996 no count taken
1995 16,791 (when wolf reintroduction began)
1994 19,045 (year before wolf reintroduction)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 02:25 pm:

Anybody remember Frank Buck and the book he wrote
"Bring em Back alive"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 02:30 pm:



Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2013/05/15/the-invasion-of-yellowstone-lake-by-lake-trout-blamed-for-decline-in-yellowstones-elk/

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/study-yellowstone-trout-decline-pushes-bears-to-elk-calf-diet/article_092dad45-a63c-5aec-83ab-e255b5ca1050.html

http://www.yourpublicmedia.org/content/wnpr/wolves-not-linked-elk-decline-yellowstone-park-yale-researcher-says


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By allanwick on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 03:25 pm:

Global warming has caused a woman to go crazy and start to cut up a dead horse with a chainsaw she bought at an auction?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 03:29 pm:

She got it cheap. I love auctions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 07:03 pm:

Was the reintroduction of the wolf to the west thought up by the same guy that figured he knew what light bulb we all need?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 07:45 pm:

"Dr. Ralph Maughan is professor emeritus of political science at Idaho State University with specialties in natural resource politics, public opinion, interest groups, political parties, voting and elections." No where do I see this guy claiming to have any expertise in biology or credentials to prove that his hypothesis is anything other than his un-expert opinion. Before taking pieces like these seriously one might want to examine the credentials of the author to determine their credibility. Last I read, the RMEF had more biologists on their staff than political scientists.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 - 09:00 pm:

I'll see your Ralph Maughan and raise you an Art Middleton. Ain't Google grand?

http://environment.yale.edu/profile/arthur-middleton/

http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/study-wyoming-wolves-getting-bad-rap-for -elk-decline/article_b09d3586-e35a-5971-8ce5-0183cab9d159.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 07:04 am:

Great study! Perfect reason to allow Grizzly hunting in the park and sell lots of tags.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 02:01 pm:

We have also had a reintroduction here in the Olympic National Park about 10 years ago. Wolves haven't been here for over a hundred years or so. The powers to be tried to keep it quiet and still don't want to talk about it. Several people have seen these Gray Wolves in the last few years right in their back yards including us. They seem to have controlled the Coyote population as you don't see or here them like before..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 03:15 pm:

PBS had an hour about them last night. I thought it was nearly balanced.

Rather than overdose the veg garden with insecticides, etc., wifey has the philosophy of tithing to nature. Many people tithe 10% to their church. Likewise, farmers and ranchers could tithe 10% to nature.

I also think it's unfair that government land is leased for grazing at pennies per acre. I don't know if the price has ever been raised since the 1800s. If ranchers can't make a living without subsidized land, they will quit, and the price of beef and mutton will go up, making it more profitable everywhere else. Why should we subsidize the price of beef in the market? It's not that good for you. . Why should we subsidize the price of wool that goes to the ChiComs?

Since the elk populations have been thinned by wolves in the Park, they said vegetation has grown by the creek banks, reducing erosion.

There is rarely, if ever, a stable balance of nature, as some claim; but without man, there are fewer extinctions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 10:16 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 10:37 am:

Let a few loose in the building while these geniuses are in session. They'll change their minds. If they have any minds to change that is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 11:02 am:

Where are the Yellow eye's?.I do like the idea of less woodchucks! Bud in Wheeler.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 01:18 pm:

I reckon it was the same idiots that released coyotes around here to control deer.Yea they control alright,the calf and cat,and domesticated dog populations.Dang deer are everywhere. Yea release a few packs of them wolves in washington.
Well on second thought,those politicians are so full of S--- that the wolves wouldn't eat them probably.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 03:34 pm:

What is RMEF ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 04:29 pm:

Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, a hunters' group.

http://www.rmef.org/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 05:04 pm:

I went past a farm in northern Indiana about 10 yrs ago and there must have been 20 dead ground hogs hanging on the fence.


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