Beautiful, but...

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Beautiful, but...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 01:00 am:

Looking for parts, today I brought in one of the rear axles that's been sitting on my trailer since I bought them at a September auction to keep a scrapper from getting them. The thrust washers were gone and the ring gear is toast, but I thought this inner bearing was lovely. Nice smooth surfaces, and a good tight cage. But the wear measures .0045" to .007". Oh, well...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Findlay on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 03:05 am:

Too bad the new sleeves aren't made .002 or .003 oversize. I've got a bunch just like yours. Can't bear to throw them away
Ken


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 05:36 am:

Steve - where is the wear measured?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 07:15 am:

Had the same experience with my axle on my '26. The previous owners had never added and rear axle oil. When I slit the pumpkin halves there was more than four teaspoons left in there. Needless to say the Hyatts were destined for recycling. Most of the rollers miced out at .494-.492. The driveshaft bearing came out in pieces. Just a completely worn out mess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 09:27 am:

Dan B. -- The important measurement is the diameter of the rollers. They were .500" originally.

I hope you guys aren't throwing away ones which measure 5 thou under that. If you rebuild a rear end using new sleeves and axles, you'll need bearings which are a little undersize to fit them in there. Otherwise they're too tight. At least that's been my experience -- your mileage may vary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 11:34 am:

Could an axle be sleeved to make the bearings run better? Or perhaps built up?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 12:35 pm:

My opinion, mostly from what I've learned on the forum in the past, is that Mike Walker is "right on"!

It's pretty easy to find bearings that mic up as well as .498. I'm sure that these are usually bearings that were factory installed as the "inner" bearings that do not wear as much as the outer bearings near the wheels and that support the weight of the car. I'd say that such bearings (.498) would be great to use with worn sleeves that are not going to be replaced.

However, if a badly worn sleeve is being replaced with a NEW sleeve, I would think that a really nice bearing that has some wear like the one Steve pictured would be perfect to use.

Again, just my opinion, however, partially based on the fact that I've read in this forum so many account of guys having trouble installing NEW, or, only slightly worn bearings in NEW sleeves.

Hope this makes sense,.....FWIW,.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 12:40 pm:

Steve:

Would a single layer of duct tape on the outside of the bearing shell compress enough to compensate for bearing wear ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 01:37 pm:

Actually, some brass shim material around the sleeve might be just the thing. I wonder if you could install material that thin without wrecking it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 01:43 pm:

Maybe somebody will come up with oversize sleeves to use with slightly worn bearings. Maybe someday?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 01:47 pm:

As many otherwise good bearings as there are, with just a little too much wear, I'd think there's a market for some oversize sleeves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 01:58 pm:

Why not have a oversize axle? Say .002/.003. You can get new axles that are longer, so why not could the axle be ground oversize. Any body know who makes the new axles? Not who sells them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Gelfer, Milwaukee WI on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 01:59 pm:

Actually, you would need the sleeves to be undersized with a smaller bore to fit the worn rollers, right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 02:15 pm:

That's a matter of perspective. Oversized thickness = undersized bore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 02:31 pm:

I usually run them for the inners as they don't get much wear anyway. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 03:20 pm:

On the other hand, here's what can happen when the thrust washers go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 04:01 pm:

As Jerome suggests, slightly oversize axles would be easier. You can't just buy the stock for bearing sleeves in any thickness you want.

The trouble is, the rollers don't wear evenly across their entire width. One end is always smaller so they essentially get tapered. Running a tapered roller against new sleeves and new axles will cause rapid wear in both. My thought has been to regrind the rollers to .010 undersize and make axles .020 bigger. But then, floating hubs are arguably a far better choice anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 07:15 pm:

Oversize axles may be easy to make, but I would not look forward to making the hole in the axle gears larger to make them fit. They are really tough, and the interupted cut made by the keyway would really complicate machining/honing them.

Besides, surely a sleeve of reduced internal diameter would be cheaper to make and simpler to fit.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Harper - Keene, NH on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 08:04 pm:

Do any of you have at hand the factory print for the axle roller bearing? I was under the impression that the rollers were made to .499" originally.

And, I don't recall anyone commenting here that the genuine Hyatt/Ford bearing have Eight rollers while the modern reproductions have only Six.
Could it be possible that the shorter life of the repros is due more to fewer rollers and due less to the rollers being solid?

Rambling thoughts from my frozen addeled brain; it is already zero degrees here. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 09:17 pm:




Bill, you're close but a little off. The originals do indeed have eight rollers, but the repos have seven. One experienced T guy and parts dealer whose opinion I respect told me the modern ones are better than their reputation, but I'll stick with the real Hyatts as long as I can find good ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 09:26 pm:

Steve I was told the same thing by one of the big T parts suppliers owners a couple of years ago.
He told that a customer complained why he couldn't get more than 20,000 miles out of the repos.
But I still try to use the best original Hyatt's I can find. Force of habit I guess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 12:52 am:

Steve: What are the cuts in your original bearing ends. I have never seen them and I have sold a bucket load of them of the years. And I installed a bucket load of them and still have never seen the cuts like yours. Did you other bearings have the cuts also?

bearings


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven Thum on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 01:04 am:

I had one of the repro pinion bearings put in my car, just like the repro Steve pictured above, and did not get 2000 miles out of it. My first 2 days at the 2008 Indiana gathering was spent rebuilding my rear axle and drive shaft. I now have a Fun Projects modern pinion bearing in there and have probably over 8000 miles on it. I will not install one of those repro bearings again!

Steven


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 10:26 am:

Dave, I don't know why that bearing has the round cuts (notches). I think it's the only one I have like that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 12:19 pm:

I used Hyatts on my recent 16 diff rebuild because of the bad rep the new bearings from users. Even though there is no conclusive evidence they are as such.

My grandpa had bought a couple of extra diff so I took them apart and found two good Hyatts.

On assembly with four used Hyatts (mine and his), new axles from Langs I found no play or other issues. Differential assembly spins free with no binding.

Millions of these vehicles ran for years with clearances that were out of factory specs so I'm not worried about one or two thousands out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 01:41 pm:

Allan,

I wasn't suggesting going oversize on the inner end. Although, if you wanted to, you could leave the diameter in the gear area unchanged and step up the shaft dia. approx. 1/4" back to allow for the gear to come back enough to insert the keepers. The loss of 1/4" width of bearing area, especially on the inner bearings, shouldn't be a problem.

Also, a sleeve of "reduced internal diameter" would require the sleeve to be made from thicker stock. As I'm sure the current suppliers can confirm, and as I stated already, "You can't just buy the stock for bearing sleeves in any thickness you want." (unless you want to buy a mill run.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 06:11 am:

install sleeve and bearing...measure radial play...divide by "2"...remove bearing and sleeve...wrap resulting thickness of stainless steel shim stock around OD of sleeve and reinstall. Done.

On to next project.


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