Speedometers

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Speedometers
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erica Wright on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 12:41 pm:

Hi everyone, Erica again with her grandfather’s 1914 Touring. A friend of ours recently went to a swap meet here in Michigan and purchased 26 old issues of “The Vintage Ford” dating as far back as Vol. 1 #1 and we have been reading each one in turn. I came across an article “The Speedometer and your Ford” (Vol. 2, #2 Mar-Apr 1967). I understand the article was written by Don Marr of Santa Barbra Calif. who was in the business of repairing old speedometers, that the article could not be all inclusive to the many different types if speedometers that may have been used, and that Don is quite older or no longer with us. But I have a speedometer that is different than any that was shown in the article and was wondering if anyone could give some more insight as to what I need to do to get it working again and maybe provide any back ground on it. What do I need to know before dismantling, cleaning, and lubricating it?
You can see on the road gear that it’s a 60T-8P, we haven’t dismantled anything yet so we don’t know what’s going on were the cable is concerned, but as you can see it’s all attached.








(Message edited by admin on January 22, 2014)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 01:26 pm:

Russ Furstnow wrote a couple books on Speedometers. The second is a lot of history. The first one will help you identify what you have. Sure looks like everything is correct for 1914 except perhaps the road gear, EG the spindle arm with the hole, the L bracket, the S clamp, the swivel, the small gear, the cable and the head. Ideally the road gear should be #1322 without the inner spokes but the number and pitch of the teeth is the same. I'd certainly stick with everything you have.
A word of caution. Some of the early heads have pot metal innerds and are very fragile. Might be a good idea to send the head and swivel to Russ if work needs to be done. Here's a set up he did for me.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 01:30 pm:

If Russ Furstnow doesn't see this and post a reply, contact him. He's the go-to guy for all things speedometer.

I have zero experience with T era speedometers, but going by the pictures I suspect all you may need to do is adjust the bracket to engage the gears, apply grease, and go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 02:12 pm:

I just looked up your Model 100 Stewart and found that Russ has it in his book.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM WILSON, AMORY, MS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 03:09 pm:

What's holding Erica's wheel gear to the wheel/hub? My old eyes can't see it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 03:13 pm:

Jim Wilson:

Your right one screw is missing altogether and not sure one the other that you can kind of see.

speedo heads


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 03:14 pm:

speedo gear


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Spencer Vibert on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 04:58 pm:

Hey Dave Would you sell one of them say a stewart 490 for a 27 roadster


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erica Wright on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 04:59 pm:

Tom seems to think it's pressed on the hub. Does that seem right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 06:01 pm:

Some early front hubs were machined to accept the road gear but were still attached with three wood screws and brass spacers. That attempted to ease the pain of installation without needing a proper centering device, which Stewart did come out with but I do not know when - perhaps Russ F. or Dave H. might be able to date that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 06:15 pm:

Erica Wright:

I have installed many, many of the drive gears and I have never seen one pressed on. You must center them correctly and install screws. If you don't have the correct centering device maybe someone in your local club would have one. It is very critical to have the drive gear centered correctly.

centering device


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 06:20 pm:

By the way if you look at the small embossed numbers on the bottom face (dial) of you head you will see some numbers. The first two numbers are the year of the head.

NOTE!!! I would not drive that head too much until you get some one to install some VERY LIGHT oil. I use very light sewing machine oil. You can always get the oil from a place that repairs sewing machines.

centering device


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM WILSON, AMORY, MS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 06:23 pm:

The road gear doesn't appear to have holes that would allow it to be screwed to the spokes as with the other gears I have seen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 06:47 pm:

Jim Wilson:

Look at the picture again and you will see a hole just in from the hub. You MUST have the drive gear mounted with screw or you risk damaging the swivel, spokes and other things. The hole is about 10 Oclock. If you look at the hubs before mounting the driven gear you usually find they have been predrilled. In fact I don't remember seeing a hub that was not predrilled in the early wheels.

picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester Leighton on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 07:52 pm:

If you have a lathe or access to some one who does, you can make a wood spacer that fits between the hub and the inside diameter of the gear and acts as a centering bushing. You can use a punch to mark the spokes for the mounting screw pilot holes. Worked on my 26.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 08:40 pm:

Dave Huson:

To reiterate what Steve Tomaso wrote, the large gear on Erica's car as well as the small gear that came with the cheaper "Ford special" speedometers presses onto the hub. The hub is machined and has a shoulder to accept the gear.

Additionally, there are three wood screws screws that pass through the gear AND through holes in the hub before entering the wood. I believe there was also a steel spacer around each screw between the gear and hub. A centering jig is not required.

My unrestored '17 roadster came with a Stewart 102 speedometer and the large road gear is pressed on the machined hub and fastened with three screws. However, I don't recall it having spacers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 08:49 pm:

That road gear is not pressed on the hub. It slips on and off easily. It is a later gear from perhaps 1917 or some year after that.

That being said it will function perfectly and is just like the one on the 14 in my garage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 09:03 pm:


Note the three speedometer holes in this early hub. No centering needed. Just line up the holes and install the screws.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JIM WILSON, AMORY, MS on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - 09:44 pm:

I learn something every day. Haven't seen early hubs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 12:38 am:

Eric Johnson:

You are right about the early hubs with the ridge and the three screw holes, you do not need a centering device but the later ones need some way to be centered. If Erica has the correct 14 hub with the three screw holes she will not need a centering device.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 03:06 am:

Erica Wright:

Don't let any one tell you that all you need on your 14 is a lip fit. The gear WILL come off and when it does it will demolish your swivel. Swivals (when you can find them) are costing about $125.00 for a good one at the swap meets. You MUST have screws to hold the drive gear.
pictureA654 New Snow Forest Canyon Overlook (Web).jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 03:06 am:

Erica Wright:

Don't let any one tell you that all you need on your 14 is a lip fit. The gear WILL come off and when it does it will demolish your swivel. Swivals (when you can find them) are costing about $125.00 for a good one at the swap meets. You MUST have screws to hold the drive gear.
picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 07:41 am:

Steve the hub in your picture is about 1918 - 1919.

Here's a 1914 - 1917 hub. They have a wheel makers cartouche, this one has sort of a waffle design but there are several different makers each with their own mark:



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 10:20 am:

Royce, educate me. What identifies that hub as 1918-1919? The absence of a mark? The three holes fooled me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 10:29 am:

The best thing to do is look at Russ's book. Keep in mind that your set up was an aftermarket item in 1914, so almost anything would be correct. I would assume that your car would have used the earlier wheel gear with no spokes however. BUT, the one you have was designed to go on the hub that Royce posted, but will also work on the hub that Steve posted too. I've seen a lot of those wheel gears that are actually a tight fit on the hub, and perhaps that is why there are no screws. I would also turn your swivel over to the top side. Nice original set up, and I like the color of your firewall too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 01:35 pm:

Steve,

Ford machined a spot to fit the speedometer gear on hubs made from mid 1914 - 1917 approximately to accommodate the new "T Special" small speedometer wheel gear. See the "step" where the machining ends?

Beginning about 1918 someone realized they could just cast the hubs in the proper diameter to eliminate the machining operation and save money. By this time speedometers were not a factory option, but someone at Ford made it where the later hubs could interchange with the earlier ones as was the accepted practice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 01:36 pm:

Looking at your picture again maybe yours has the "step" Steve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 02:16 pm:

Erica,

You have the complete set up and I would use it as it has been assembled. I would lube and check the components to be sure it didn't have trouble and someone disconnected it.

Disconnect the cable at the swivel and lube the swivel with regular bearing grease. Force it through the cap and be sure the gears turn freely.

Disconnect the cable from the head and pull the chain out all the way and grease it. Same grease. When pulling it out, tie a string to the end of the chain you are pulling through so you can pull it back through well greased. Check the links.

Jack the right front wheel up and engage the swivel gear with the road gear. Spin the wheel forward and be sure the small gear and swivel turn smoothly. Don't engage the road gear and swivel gear too tight. Loose is OK so you don't load the swivel.

Hook the chain back up to the swivel and turn the front wheel forward to "lay" the chain links. Check the speedometer that it turns freely then hook the cable to the head. Spin the wheel in a forward direction and the speedometer should register. If it works smoothly, you should be good to go. If the head is hard to turn send it to Russ for service.


Stewart 100's

These are a couple of Model 100's. The serial number is on the face of the speedometer. Serial number beginning with "E" is a 1913, "F" is a 1914. The swivel should be a "1913" which is a 2-1/2 to 1. Road gear is 60 tooth 8 pitch as others have said.

Russ is the authority and person to send the components if they need service. His book is very good.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 03:00 pm:

Ken: I have a few heads and all the 13s say 13 and all the 14s say 14 at the beginning of the serial numbers. You don't see all the heads in this picture because some are 3 and 4 deep.

heads


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erica Wright on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 07:00 pm:

Ken
Thank you for the instructions we should be able to get it apart and back together, I'll let you know how it comes out. Do you know where I can get Ross's book?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 07:46 pm:

Dave,

My 100's have the letter followed by the serial number then a dash and 13 or 14 (the year). Yes, you are correct but it is the last two numbers are the year that correlate to the letter and not really part of the serial number. All of Stewart's products used the letter to denote the year. The only letters they didn't use was the I and O. Later in 1914 Stewart used "F-14" but I don't have one of them. I don't have one that shows "E-13" but you have many more than I do.

I believe I got the book from Lang's. "The Antique Automobile Speedometer".

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 23, 2014 - 09:16 pm:

I got mine from Russ:

Russ Furstnow
3545 West Kiltie Loop
Flagstaff
AZ 86001

You can use the search function at the top of this page to find his profile and contact him by email.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 10:00 am:

Stewart also made a speedometer in 1914 that is a 100, but says Ford Special at the top. This is not the one they made in 1915.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 12:24 pm:

Hi Erica,
Go check out this website:

http://antiquespeedometer.com/

Look at the "Speedo Catalogue".

They have HUNDREDS of antique speedometers. They are listed by manufacturer.

Regards,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 12:30 pm:

Erica:
Here is a link at antiquespeedometer.com to all of the Stewart Warner speedometers. Your Model 100 is in the list.

http://antiquespeedometer.com/inventory.php?category=B30DFE34-FAAB-49E2-AA7C-0DA A0613AFE3

Hope this helps,
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 01:23 pm:

Geez Dave. Are you building cars around all those speedos or saving for retirement? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 01:55 pm:

Hey Jon - I have both emailed the folks at Antique Speedometer and called and left a message, and never heard back from them. I was looking for a Jones speedo with a white face that went up to 60 MPH and there are several I like that fit the bill on the website. After I tried a couple of times I just gave up and wondered if perhaps they had gone out of business but the website hadn't expired yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Friday, January 24, 2014 - 03:47 pm:

Ken Kopsky:

I used to spend a lot of time, making up full speedometer sets but then it got so hard to find swivals at a decent price I quit. I found that it is much more profitable to sell other parts, like transmission parts, ruckstells, carbs and other things. Some things like the cable housings are easy to find and even the heads are easy to find.

picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 09:32 am:

Hi All,
I missed the start of this post because I was attending the MTFCI Annual Meeting in Washington DC. Erica has contact me and I've responded with some information to help. The road gear on her car is the Stewart spoke type gear, P/N 8685. When it comes to centering a gear, this is the best gear to mount IF you have the Ford machined hub. There needs to be three screws attaching the gear to the wheel, though.

The rest of the setup is quite correct for a 1914 Ford, and should be kept with the car. I suggested she have the head and swivel restored just to insure the components don't fail down the road.

One other comment, Dave suggests that one can purchase a swivel for $125 at swap meets, and I would like to find out where he has seen them at this price!! I'm ready to "buy up"!! The swivels I find, if they are restorable cost nearly twice that amount.

Thanks for the positive comments about the two books, and I'm happy to help with your speedometer questions.

Russ Furstnow


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 11:50 am:

Seth,
Yea, Phil Knighton is absolutely the slowest guy on earth. While I referenced his speedometer website, I don't think much of his service. He is probably there somewhere, but it is hard to communicate with him. (A little bit like Ed Bittner at True Fire.) I once ordered a neat Jones Speedometer from him. Sent a $600 deposit on a $1200 speedo. A YEAR later nothing had happened! I put a stop payment on the check and gave up. At about 14 months from the time I ordered it, he emailed me and said it was ready. I told him he was a day late and dollar short.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 03:05 pm:

here's my 2 cents worth! I have a lot of Stewart spedos, they would be my last chose if I had to use one everyday. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Allen on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 06:10 pm:

At the risk of being offensive, I confess to using a GPS speedometer that mounts to the firewall with a suction cup! IT'S GREAT! I just take it off when I don't want it to show or care about my speed.

Completely reversible, accurate, and no modifications required. It cost $100 at Target...

Try one. You'll like it.

Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 06:14 pm:

The stewart 26 the Russ rebuilt for my '11 matches my GPS as fast as I have been. Willing to drive the car, somewhere between 45 and 50 mph. I don't mean it's close; it's a dead on match. I can't say I paid attention below 20 MPH, but from there and up it is absolutely dead on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erica Wright on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 07:25 pm:

Jon
I like your GPS speedometer idea better than trying to get this to work right away. But thank you everyone for all the great info and advice.
Erica


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