2 questions about helicoil kits and kwik poly for wooden wheels

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: 2 questions about helicoil kits and kwik poly for wooden wheels
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ludo Verfaillie on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 04:39 am:

Hello Everybody ,

I'm traveling to the US shortly and need to pick up some material for repairs on my 1913 touring .

I need what is called a helicoil kit to repair a worn thread on the engine block. It causes a small water leak visible on the outside .Is there a particular recommendation for a special type or material or brand ?
Any idea where I could find this in the Palo Alto area in California ?

On a forum last year KWIK POLY was recommended for spot repair on worn wood spokes . It is a polyol for polyurethane .
Kwikpolyllc is not very communicative to tell me where I could find this . Any idea where somebody may have found this around Palo Alto ? Can it be taken on a plane ?

Thank you

Ludo
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 05:29 am:

Ludo, helicoil is a name brand and can be found in a kit at any good automotive parts store, kwik poly is available through Langs and probably other vendors. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 07:37 am:

If there is a NAPA store in the town you are going to,they will have the helicoils.
MAKE SURE to get the correct drill bit for the size hole you are repairing,that is critical and does not come with the kit.
Harbor frieght sells a kit to but I am not sure if it is as good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 09:30 am:

Mack;
Don't know if there is any NAPA stores in Belgium.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 10:18 am:

"NAPA store in the town you are going to..."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 11:31 am:

I bought a heli coil kit from my local NAPA store in Ramona and it came with the correct drill. I have bought wood finishes on-line, many places.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 11:52 am:

Ludo
You can create your own version of Kwik Poly.
Start with some laquer thinner ( perhaps 1/4 litre) in a sealable container with a large opening. Now add styrofoam until no more will dissolve. Remove any excess styrofoam. Now add laquer thinner (perhaps as much as another 1/4 litre). Brush this on the piece of wood or dip the piece of wood in it. Allow to fully penetrate. Now allow to dry. The "pores" in the wood will now be filled with styrene.
Caution; the wood will now appear quite solid. However do NOT assume that it has it's original strength. I would be very cautious using it on wooden wheels


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 11:52 am:

I would order the quick poly from langs and have it delivered to where you need it. It is considered a hazardous material and more than likely not allowed on a commerical airline. I would get the kit for the heli-coil in the size you need. It should have the drill and tap and a few inserts. I would also buy a few extra heli-coil inserts (depending on how many come with the kit) in case you mess up one of them. Its not likely you will mess up one but it can happen. They are cheap so a couple extras will not hurt. I just look on e-bay for most of the things I need like heli-coils ect, and have them shipped to my address. Its easier that way...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 11:54 am:

Helicoil threads are not liquid tight!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Saturday, January 25, 2014 - 12:30 pm:

If you have a water or oil leak around bolt threads coat the thread of the bolt liberally w/gasket goo before installing it.
GM diesels were as infamous for oil leaks as Model Ts are and thats how we stopped them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ludo Verfaillie on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 04:52 am:

Thank you all for sharing your wisdom .
I found a NAPA store in Redwood City near Palo Alto in Calif . I can get a helicoil kit there , with some extra coils as recommended . The drill is critical . Here in Belgium everything is metric of course . Any recommendation for the drill size for the cylinder head bolts ? I suspect the helicoil inserts are not liquid tight , but the head gasket should stop the water leak when properly tightened .

If I can get hold of Kwik poly I will see what safety recommendations are on the container because I have to take it home by plane .The idea of making a styrene hardener with laquer thinner is brilliant ! Never thought of that , but obviously perfect to penetrate easily in surface deterioration . I am quite certain it will not peal off as surface paint does after a while .
Thanks again .

Ludo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 06:01 am:

Ludo : I send you a PM .
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 07:47 am:

Uh Ludo,I would learn more about the head bolt and makeing it liquid tight.I dont think a head gasket is enough.
The salesman at the napa should know the drill size or be able to find out for you.Someone here should know as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 10:00 am:

The head bolts should seal with the head gasket. The bolt holes are a blind hole and do not go into a water jacket on a model T. There could be one that has been worked on that maybe goes into a water jacket but it would be rare. I always use anti-seize on head bolts. ALWAYS no exception to the rule ALWAYS. In the case of a heli-coil I feel the ant-seize is need more as the threads have a slight "drag" to them when installed. Anti-seize is not a lubricant and does not change the torque readings as oil will do. The kit should have the proper drill and tap in it for the 7/16 NC head bolt size. Another reason I like to have a few extra inserts, is that the tool and kit will be ready to use at a later date if needed and you will not have to look for them again. The 7/16 NC size is a good one to have around when working on TS. The other size I would suggest is 3/8 NF for some of the other places on a T. If you have the funds I would suggest getting both kits with extra inserts at the same time .... As the old Boy Scouts saying goes "Be Prepared"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 10:08 am:

The drill bit size is 29/64". It was included with the Helicoil kit I purchased.

Click here to see more about what you should do:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/50310.html

Head bolts should be torqued to perhaps 45 lb - ft on pre - 1917 blocks or you will have many helicoils to install. Personally I do not use a torque wrench on T head bolts any more. I use a box end wrench about 10" long to achieve the appropriate amount of tightness.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 10:31 am:

What Donnie says about the head bolts is not accurate all of the time. One of the head bolts in the middle is sometimes drilled right through into the water jacket. I have encountered this.
A good solution is a copper washer in conjunction with the head bolt. This has worked in the past.

Ludo
I was concerned that you might not be able to take Kwik Poly on a airplane. The formula I have suggested has worked well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 10:46 am:

Just to get the right Helicoils kit.
Are the head bolts UNC 7/16 14G??

Thanks
Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 04:57 pm:

Fellows, with a helicoil thread not being watertight, an alternative fix may be a Keysert[again a trade mark]. These are tubular inserts which have a coarse thread on the outside and the required thread on the inside. The same process is used to fit them.

I found a 1913 block which had been drilled out to take 1/2" bolts as head bolts. I was not going to drill out all the holes in a good head to fit it. Plugging the block holes and re-drilling/tapping the plugs was marginal at half inch, so I was looking at going out to 5/8" plugs.

Then I discovered Key serts. The hole I had to drill for a plug became the hole to insert the Key sert, complete with thread already in place. Another advantage of Key serts is they are available in more than one wall thickness for oversized holes.

Another good use for them is the thread replacement in the front axle king pin holes. Installed from below, they leave the unthreaded section at the top to locate the pin as you fit it, and there is no problem with the thread winding out which can happen with helicoils in this application.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 01:35 pm:

Alan,

Keyserts, also known as Keenserts:

http://www.rivetsonline.com/thread-repair-kits/keenserts.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ludo Verfaillie on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 05:26 pm:

I asked Lang's what they recommend .

Steve suggested Fulltorque ( see fulltorque.com ) from California . It is supposed to be superior and watertight , for who needs it .

Ludo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 07:19 pm:

There are a lot of thread repair products. Helicoil type inserts, solid inserts, some with pins, some with glue. The best I found was sold by Lock N Stitch in Turlock.
Key to a good job is something to keep the drill and tap steady and perpendicular to the work. On headbolts, the head itself makes a good holding jig for drilling.


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