Sealing a Ruckstell

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Sealing a Ruckstell
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Schwab on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 12:00 pm:

I'm working on a Ruckstell and will use the neoprene axle seal on the right axle.....can the neoprene seal be used somehow in the Ruckstell housing, or what's the best way to seal the axle in that housing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 01:13 pm:

David Schwab:

If I understand what you are asking, I install the Neoprene Seals on both ends. For many years I used the felt seals but they are a lot of trouble and time installing them. The felt seals worked MOST OF THE TIME

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Schwab on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 01:36 pm:

The inner seal is what I'm wondering about. Since the Ruckstell has the thrust bearing and not the bearing sleeve that holds the neoprene seal in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Schwab on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 01:48 pm:

OK, maybe I'm thinking this wrong..... Does the inner seal go on the outside of the inner bearing, or the inside of the outer bearing? It's been years since I've torn into a rear end. I guess it would do the same thing on the inside of the outer bearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 01:53 pm:

It goes inside outer bearing and works just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 01:54 pm:

Inside of the outer bearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 01:57 pm:

I think the directions are that you have to grind off about 1/8" of the inner end of the race or it will stick out too far and not line the dimple and hole.

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 07:35 pm:

Dave, No grinding necessary if you are using our seals. They are designed to be thin where they mate with the sleeve so they cause little displacement and the dimples still line up with the holes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 10:20 pm:

The Ruckstell housing and the Ford housings are the same at the ends, so you need not worry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 10:24 pm:

Glen:

thanks for the information. Next batch I order will be from you.

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 10:32 am:

In the past there has been some positive and negative discussion on differential lubrication, there are several opinions on weights of oils etc.
As far as I can trace back #1 or #2 wt grease was used. In early advertising for a Ruxtal conversion nothing had to be changed or altered as relatng to lubrication. Shifting components had to be well packed before assembly. Some people have issues with leaking oils and some don't. The paper gaskets had limited sealing ability for oil. Grease will not leak, your call.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 11:25 am:

Grease will not leak ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 02:20 pm:

A big part of the reason there are so many totally worn out Ruckstells around is that people run "grease" in them rather than a good modern lubricant. In 1922 when the Ruckstell was introduced there were not a lot of good lubricants between heavy gear grease and motor oil. Putting gun grease in a Ruckstell is just asking for it to be poorly lubricated. 85-140 gear oil will run forever. If you prefer to not have so many additives, buy standard gear oil at a tractor supply store.

Any Ruckstell that is rebuilt should have the center parting lines re-machined to be sure the mating surfaces match and will seal with nothing more than a good gasket sealer. I personally prefer copper bearing Permatex. It will seal better than a paper gasket if the parting lines match.

Standard rear ends should also have the parting line surfaces machined before any assembly is done.

Grease -- or at least what most people think of when they think of gun grease -- is basically gear oil suspended in soap. The heavier the soap used they heavier the weight of grease.

Ruckstell # 69 is now installed and running and Glenn has done far more of them than I have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 05:19 pm:

Greases are available in a variety of grades and not only gun grease NLGI grades grease consistency from #000 - #6. #000 being fluid and #6 being hard. #00, #0,#1 and #1.5 are a creamy semi fluid to soft grease. These grades of grease will not migrate to the outer wheels however will lubricate sufficiently. If too high a grade number it will not be effective in a differential housing. Large outboard motors use a #1.5 grade in the lower gear box and it is most effective in cold water. For a differential application a very soft creamy grease would be acceptable and would resist leaking. The lubrication was not intended to be changed as there was no drain plugs provided. Originally 1.5 lbs of grease was put in the housing and if an owner in the early days decided to check the (oil) level with the "finger" method it would be usually be determined low because 1.5 lbs of grease wouldn't be close to that level. In many cases the level was brought up to the minimum finger level with oil. The design was not for oil and many quick fix repairs were done to seal the oil in the housing that was not designed for oil. The system of felts in the outer axles would not stop oil. The outer bearings were lubricated via grease cups and the felts were there to keep dust out. As far back as possible to go with Model T differentials there has been leaking problems with oil, because some oil was put in to bring the level up and/or leaking transmission seals and oil leaking down the torque tube and filling the differential housing and eventually out the ends of the axles. There was no means to remove the grease except disassembly, it was put in and intended to be there for life. When leaking problems occurred additional felts were jammed into the housing to form a dam to prevent the oil from coming out the axles, this was a temporary fix, because it was leaking from the engine or somebody had over filled the housing with oil. To day there are many leaking differential housings and just as many method to correct it and there as many that never had a problem in 30 - 40 years as there is that had many problems in 30 - 40 years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 05:47 pm:

That may all be true but we are not running the engine oils they ran 90 years ago and I see not reason to not run modern gear lubricant in a Ruckstell. A Ruckstell is a $2000-4000 investment and I want mine to last. Mine do not leak running 85-140 in them or if someone has had problems with them leaking oil I haven't heard from them. I've rebuilt 69 or 70 Ruckstells and as far as I know every one of them is running modern gear oil. If the parting lines are machined and sealed there is not much of anywhere for them to leak except down the axle tubes and that is taken care by the modern seal inboard of the outer bearings.

I find it to be an unsupported statement that greases will lubricate sufficiently. In my opinion the Ruckstell assembly needs an oil that will flow into the holes that lubricate the bronze plate and thrust plate to prevent or lessen wear in that area. Virtually every Ruckstell I have ever torn down, including some that were rebuilt in recent years, had wear in that area and scoring due to the lack of lubrication between the thrust surfaces.

You can run anything you want in your Ruckstell but considering that I have to warranty my work I will continue to recommend 85-140 gear oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 06:06 pm:

I never did understand how grease would lubricate a rear end. Once the ring gear or spider gears cut a path in the grease, they would seem to run dry. That said, there are semi fluid greases on the market, eg John Deere's product for a multiluber used on farm equipment. That would be safer for those who want to use grease, IMHO.


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