I Owe Tom Butterworth an Apology - He is a Man of His Word

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: I Owe Tom Butterworth an Apology - He is a Man of His Word
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 07:32 pm:

I put an update in the thread below apologizing to Tom Butterworth regarding the parts I bought from him, but it's pretty far down in a thread that gets harder to read every day, so I decided to create a new thread to make sure everyone sees it.

Turns out Tom shipped the parts in question on January 21, right when he said he did. The screw-up that has delayed delivery of the parts is within the postal system.

Here is a link to the other thread if you want more details. Once again, Tom, I apologize.

If anything good can come out of this, it is to drive home the value of putting a tracking number on shipments and providing it to the buyer. Without that number, the package would have been lost forever with no idea of what happened to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 07:32 pm:

Oops, forgot the link, here it is:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/417787.html?1390781130


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mark Eyre on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 08:30 pm:

He is a pretty good guy and has done everything that he said he would when I have dealt with him. The problem with forum use it takes the face to face part of human conversation out of the equation . If I type "wow" it can be taken so many ways good or bad. I' m glad it worked out for both parties. I knew it would as I spoke with Tom Thursday night as he was looking forward to this situation to be resolved . Have a good evening everybody.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 09:09 pm:

Mark Strange..... Hoping you have learned that the postal system is not perfect. Lean back and take it easy. Ive had shipments with tracking numbers that were delivered days after the computer said it was delivered....system only infallible if the human is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 11:03 pm:

There is a big difference between FEDEX, UPS and USPS.

With FEDEX and UPS I can usually tell where something is, and make a reasonable estimate of when it will be delivered.
I can sit in my office and see exactly when a was delivered to my home and where they left it.

With USPS I am lucky if it gives anything more than ready for pickup and delivered.

I figure that the USPS tracking system is rivaled only by the ACA system for lack of accuracy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Sunday, January 26, 2014 - 11:09 pm:

Mark;

I thought your original post was a reasonable request for feedback on a seller you did not know. I don't think asking for input on an individual after you've sent money and some time has passed should be a problem..... and there was quite a bit of positive feedback (and no negative) given for the seller. I think I'd have been comfortable with that and taken it off line (that goes for both sides, and is my opinion, not a dig at anybody). It got pretty heated, which was unfortunate. I'm glad to hear it worked out well in the end.

I had an unfortunate selling / shipping mistake that got out of hand a few years ago; I let the USPS labeling system standardize the address I entered, and didn't notice it changed the state I was sending to.... I was shipping things to a number of people at the same time. I don't remember if I had a typo in the zip or what, it was something stupid, but I didn't catch it and shipped an expensive item to the wrong buyer. Fortunately it was returned to me and I was able to get it to the correct buyer. Honest mistake, person was a bit upset at the delay, my fault, I knew I had shipped it, etc etc.... Stuff happens.... Hopefully you've not burned a good source for parts you may need in the future, that would be unfortunate.

It's good to see you post your positive results in a separate thread so it calls attention to your acknowledgement. Good luck with your T!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 01:42 am:

I recently learned that the USPS has no planes; the Express Mail" that is delivered so quickly goes on UPS & FEDEX planes. I recently shipped via Priority Mail, a box from CA to IL, and it arrived, in the words of the delivering mail carrier, "Like a wet noodle." I sent a second box to the same address, and it arrived, I'm told, 'looking like it was never shipped." I am still trying to deal with the insurance claim on the first one.
Some years back I shipped a scarce model T part to the east coast via UPS; tracking showed it reached a distribution center within 100 miles of its destination, and then headed to Florida, where it was lost for some weeks, before finally reaching its destination--all that time lost to the tracking system!
Life is what happens when you are making other plans, I guess. . . .
PS, There's a rumor that UPS and FEDEX may merge; the new company will be called FEDUP.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 07:40 am:

Gary London said:

"I thought your original post was a reasonable request for feedback on a seller you did not know. I don't think asking for input on an individual after you've sent money and some time has passed should be a problem..... and there was quite a bit of positive feedback (and no negative) given for the seller. I think I'd have been comfortable with that and taken it off line (that goes for both sides, and is my opinion, not a dig at anybody). It got pretty heated, which was unfortunate. I'm glad to hear it worked out well in the end."

My thoughts exactly!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 07:48 am:

My scores are as follows. In the last 10 years, I have enjoyed-

USPS -5 lost packages, 3 smashed/damaged
UPS - 1 lost package
Fed Ex - 0 lost or damaged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 09:10 am:

Everything I've shipped has gone via USPS. No problems of any kind.

I've never had a problem receiving via UPS, but never shipped with them.

Fedex on the other hand as left packages across the road at the neighbors. It seems that Fedex changes drivers almost daily. I've had two UPS drivers in the last 25 years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 09:33 am:

From where I work, we probably ship about 30 packages a week via UPS. In 25 years I honestly can't recall a single lost package although I do recall a time or two when something got damaged.

The worst example I can think of was a media mail package I sent USPS to an eBay buyer. It took 35 days to get from Oregon to San Francisco.

Nice to see conflict on here get resolved, btw. Shows some real character not seen on some of the other forums I visit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 09:37 am:

I've been talking to some of the neighbors in the older part of town. Now Old Town St. Peters is about 4 blocks long and 2 blocks deep in the residential area, but they are telling me about each of them getting someone else's mail. They walk up and down the street and sort the mail to where it belongs after it is delivered.
This area is taken care of by a walking mailman, but I think the old guy retired and there is someone new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 09:38 am:

DHL, which I don't even know if they are still active,ruined a radiator I bought online. Fedex lost a T part for me once and would not even look around for it.
All of them employee the cheapest labor and dumbest cheapest computers they can find.So all have faults.

MY observation of this situation is I would have gotten VERY upset with someone questioning my honesty on a public forum like this and I will agree,Mr Butter worth is a heck of a man for biting his tongue.I wouldn't have.When it comes to shipping something someone pays me good money for,I do the very best I can to make sure all is right.And had I been accused of wrong,I would have to be hog tied.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 11:03 am:

I live Folsom near Sacramento. I sent an eBay part to a fellow in LA couple years ago, USPS. After a month the fellow contacted me and complained he didn't receive it. I keep meticulous records and forwarded the receipt from the PO proving I mailed it per his instructions. He had declined insurance and tracking. Later that week it showed up. Who knows what happened? Should have taken a few days.
Also had an experience as a buyer. Purchased an antique mantel clock from New York, eBay as well.
Part was double boxed but was delivered all broken apart. Insurance paid for it, but what a shame.
Same thing with a fabric lamp shade from back east. Double boxed but delivered crushed. Was able to cobble it back together somewhat. Some things you can't replace.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 11:17 am:

Herb, my part of Kirkwood also has its mail delivered by a walking mailman (woman, in my case). The regular carrier is great, but she gets a day off sometimes. That's usually when I get mail for one of the two houses across the street. I refer to it as the USPS "Get to Know Your Neighbors" Program.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tim moore on Monday, January 27, 2014 - 09:03 pm:

Glad it worked out for you Mark, didn't work out so well for me at the cost of a couple of thousand dollars. A gentleman's handshake won't hold up in court but I don't forget.

Tim Moore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 - 08:06 am:

I hope it works out, I went to the post office yesterday and filled out a form to extract the package from the "dead mail" facility.

My local postmaster (who lives just down the street from me and is a car guy to boot - a late '60's Chevy Nova) didn't seem too optimistic. He told me that once the paperwork gets turned in, all correspondence on the package will take place directly between me and the "dead mail" center, he won't be able to help me.

If folks are interested, I will let you know if or when the package arrives and what kind of shape it is in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Butterworth on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 12:00 pm:

Mark.
I will send you a refund and deal with this. Stupid post office. I have the records.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 12:18 pm:

Tom, thanks for the offer, but please hold off for a week or so, there is still a chance that the package can be retrieved from the "dead mail" center.

I'll send you a PM when it looks like all hope has been exhausted, then we can talk about it.

Please save your records, if it turns out the package is lost forever, you might be able to recover the $50.00 insurance that the Priority mail service came with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 12:43 pm:

When I had the sign factory I used UPS. The company that bought the sign business from me used Fed Ex. Both outfits wrecked a shipment occasionally, but it's remarkable that they and USPS deliver the volume of stuff they deliver without a lot more loss and damage than there is.

I don't believe in the plot theory of history because a vast conspiracy would depend on a sudden, widespread outbreak of competence.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Solak on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 - 12:55 pm:

If I might be allowed to threadjack this:

Tom, have you ever build a PACO style body with the offset driver and passenger seats? We're going to be starting on a speedster soon and the body work is the one thing I'm not looking forward to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Butterworth on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 04:42 am:

I have not build a PACO body only because I have never found good enough pictures . But I have made boattail bodies with a set back passenger seat. Sorry I cant post pictures from my tablet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 08:25 am:

Speaking of lost packages...we send live oysters in the shell to our kids in the mid-west once in a while.
We wrap 'em up good and send USPS flat rate box.
One box didn't arrive and a couple weeks later we got a letter saying the PO had a box at a PO about 30 miles away that smelled bad and was leaking and wondered if we wanted it back.
We said no thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 08:59 am:

Bob, I wonder if they learned a lesson from that?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph W. Rudzik on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 11:10 am:

Herb, Dick,
Here in Independence, Mo. we had a regular mail carrier for eleven years. Great guy that farmed with his family and restored tractors and equipment.
Then, the PO stretched his route to cover open areas and then transferred him out. We started getting other peoples mail on our street and the street to the west.
The only "official" look to these "temporaries" was the mailbag. I asked one wearing just a T-shirt and jeans if he was indeed a mail carrier and he said "Yes! But, we have to buy our own uniforms and I can't afford it right now!"
Since then we have had at least six "temporary-temporaries" and the service varies. Seems looking at a big house number doesn't work anymore.

Joe R.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 11:10 am:

It's the Gov't...no way!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 01:16 pm:

When I buy things from the US my much preferred method of shipping is USPS. I have never had a problem. UPS is OK, but there border brokerage charges are rediculous. Fed-ex's delivery is a bad joke to where I live. The postal system works decently and is affordable. IF it is a high value and compact shipment then UPS expedited works OK for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Butterworth on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 03:14 pm:

Les , I shipped USPS , always had good luck . But nobody or company is perfect. I have made good money selling good parts . I lose one no big deal . I will cover it , might be cheaper than dealing with the goverment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Tuesday, February 04, 2014 - 10:55 am:

Update - you may recall that I filled out the paperwork to recover the package from the "dead mail" center and personally handed it to my local Postmaster on 1/27.

Today, 2/4, I got a phone call from my Postmaster saying that he was getting ready to email the "dead mail" facility in Atlanta, GA about my package and he needed some information from me. It turned out to be the exact same information that I had given him on the original form on 1/27.

I'm not sure why he needed the same information again, but at least he hasn't forgotten about my lost package and is making an attempt to retrieve it.

I guess there's still hope.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Butterworth on Tuesday, February 04, 2014 - 01:42 pm:

If they dont turn up I know I at least have another set of fronts . Will have to look for rears.
I will make it right for you. Sucks I put a NOS tierod end in the box also.
Tom


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Tuesday, February 04, 2014 - 02:04 pm:

Thanks, Tom, don't give up yet!

If you can gather up another set of fronts and rears and have them ready, that would be great, but please don't ship them until I PM you that all hope has been exhausted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - 02:46 pm:

Tom, I sent you a PM yesterday, please check for it and get back to me, thanks.

Mark


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 09:56 am:

Latest update - I got a PM from Tom this morning (thanks, Tom). The original box (or its remains) was returned to him by the post office yesterday. All that was left were a few shreds of the box, no parts.

Tom is checking his inventory for another set of original shackles and will send them to me in the next few days (along with the new tracking number). Let's hope that this box fares better than the first one!

Tom is going to fill out the paperwork to recover the insurance on the first box.

To be fair to the USPS, when you consider the sheer volume of packages that they handle every day, their loss rate is actually very low. I have done a lot of shipping using their flat rate boxes in the past and this is only the second time that a box has been damaged (I have never had one get completely lost).

My only suggestion to others using these boxes is to apply lots of tape - essentially wrap almost the entire box with tape, every seam, every corner, and 360 degrees around the sides, top, and bottom. Otherwise, the boxes can split when handled roughly.

Hopefully the replacement parts will arrive safely and all will be well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 10:03 am:

I hope he can get the insurance to work.
They useally say,"Not enough packageing,sorry" "You should have done -xyz claim denied."

You know it took forever to get a copy of my 1099 from 1 place Just 2 states north of me? The postal service lost the original and the first 1 I requested.And it took 11 days to get the 3rd 1.
Power bill was a week late last week.
They are really slipping in their operations.
I am expecting some control parts from a E20 Ge Electrac in the mail today or tommmorow.Heavy stuff.I hope it makes it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 10:09 am:

That"s why I ship everything UPS thru my brothers factory, we pack, box, and plastic band each box


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 11:43 am:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q6_9A90cUk


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 12:40 pm:

This guy got his guitar broken when going by United airlines. They didn't want to compensate him so he made a song to get even :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt-Southern Oregon on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 01:10 pm:

UPS tracking is superb. My business rarely pays shippingfor incoming parts.
UPS does not like home deliveries I guess. They contract with the USPS in many areas to do this.
If I ship anything out I use USPS and prefer that personal deliveries come to by USPS. They are faster than the other two (three days from the east coast).
UPS charges way too much. They are giving great contract prices to the big shippers and are making it up on the retail side. No problem with that but a drive to the post office can save a lot of money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Stitt-Southern Oregon on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 01:29 pm:

Oh for an edit button.
Hit preview and it posted. Sorry for the typos.

I prefer vendors to ship to me on my personal purchases by USPS, quicker and cheaper.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 04:55 pm:

Got my flat rate large box of E20 parts today.Box had a hole taped up in it and I have no way of knowing if all the stuff the guy sent is there because it was a box lot of everything he took off the machine.
You could tell the box had been thru hades twice.
Dang shame.Postal service has really went south.
The mail lady said last week she knew of several trailers of packages that were being held up and blamed on the storm which had no effect on them.
I honestly think the USPS wants to go out of bussiness.They have cut hours at the post office and took out stamp machines that folks like me used after hours.They dont want to provide service anymore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Butterworth on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 05:19 pm:

I went to usps today with all the paper work.
I need to prove the value of parts sent . Go on line
fill out a claims form plus what the parts are . Who
at usps are going to know what NOS spring shackles
for a 1920's Model T Ford look like or value? Ups next
time. No help there. What a shame parts are going to be
trashed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 05:40 pm:

Tom, don't give up yet - if you have a Chaffin's catalog, you can take it to the post office and show them that Chaffin's charges $95.00 for a set of front shackles and bushings and $95.00 for a set of rear shackles and bushings.

Or, if you have another supplier's catalog, use their catalog to prove the part's value. You don't need to tell the post office a story about how you got your parts, just show them what suppliers charge now.

I just sent you an email with the applicable pages out of my 2013 Chaffin's catalog showing the information above. Hopefully that will be enough to prove the value to the post office.

Please PM me with the USPS or UPS tracking number when you send out the new box, thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 09:36 pm:

What I don't like about the postal insurance is that it is all or nothing on damage. They won't pay partial loss. If you ship 2 rare widgets in one box and insure it for $300 and one widget gets destroyed they will want you to surrender the package with BOTH widgets in the box. Otherwise they will not pay. SO you have the choice of "eating" one broken widget to keep the second or surrender both to get your $300 back knowing that they will throw out the second valuable widget and not return it. Been ther done that and learned not to ship 2 widgets in one box.

Bill


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