Spindle - Inner Bearing Dimensions Inner Bearing Race Inside Diameter

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Spindle - Inner Bearing Dimensions Inner Bearing Race Inside Diameter
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 12:23 am:

Hey all,

I have looked everywhere in my books and cant find a source for what the diameter of the inner bearing area of the spindle shaft is. I have an issue with my front right wheel and took it off today. I noticed that the inner roller bearing was gummed up and the race looked like it was running on the spindle shaft on a thin layer of grease. I am curious to what that diameter is supposed to be so i can see what sort of wear I have on it and if I need to replace it.

-Benjamin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 12:42 am:

I forgot to mention I did search all over the site. I did find alot on spindle bushings, So I know I am ready to tackle that next!
I've been through the Service Manual, Service Bulletin Essentials, the Model T Ford Owner Book. The only book I now I realize I dont have is the MTFCA Repairing And Restoring The Model T Ford Front And Rear Axle. Ooops! Ill order that one next. My luck it is probably in there. Even google didnt help!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 12:50 am:

Oh! And its a 1923 Touring. Got to stop writing posts late at night! ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 10:50 am:

Benjamin,

Darel Leipold posted an illustration of the 1909-early 1911 one piece spindle. I have reposted it below.





Note the 1906 Model N to 1927 spindles could all use the same bearings. Therefore they are the same size (some a little longer to make it easier to use the roller bearings) some modified so the bearings can be removed easier etc. ) Darelís profile is at:
http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profile=modelt46-users and you can send him a private message via that or the third line down is his e-mail. You can ask him if he still has access to that information and if so what is the diameter of the spindle at that point. Iím also 99% sure that the 1928-1931 Ford passenger cars used the same diameter spindles for their bearings. You can mount a 1928-1931 front hub on a T spindle (turn down the brake drum and it looks nicer) and it fits and functions ok (uses the Model A wheels).

Another option is to pull the other front wheel off. Do the bearings fit snug on one side but not the other? Then probably the one they are both loose on has some wear. Does one bearing fit loose on both sides but the other bearing fits normal? In that case it is probably just the inside diameter of the bearing that is worn. Not as scientific as a micrometer and the original specs but works well for many Model T repairs.

Note there are also some folks that swear the bearing race on the spindle should move just a little while others say it should not. But if you donít want it to move, and it is just a little loose Ė lock tight (the easy kind to remove) would possibly work. You will also see spindles with punch marks where previous owners have taken up some slack. Again, not a recommended Ford approved method but I will defer to Steve Jelf if he would consider doing that or not. The Horseless Carriage Club of America published an article sometime in the last 10 years that did show that method for taking up the slack between the spindle and the bearing cone. [Rabbit trail Ė I wondered if the price list of parts called it a stationary cone or not. No, they list it as: Spindle Bearing Cone (Inside for ball bearings) 1909-1925 (used on non-starter cars after 1919). ]

Let us know what you find out.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 12:08 pm:

My notes show the bearing as Timken 14120 which has an ID of 1.900". I believe that it should be a slip fit on the spindle. Maybe "George" can comment on this.
I can't read the dimension on the drawing Hap posted.

http://www.replacementbearings.com/index.php?MenuLevel1=Item&SalesList=REPLACBEA R&ReturnLevel1=Items&ReturnLevel2=Timken&ReturnSalesList=REPLACBEAR&ItemDisplay= N14120&OEMFlag=0


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 12:35 pm:

I'm certainly no expert, but even being cheap I'd get another spindle if what you have is looser than a slip fit for a new bearing. There are a lot of spindles around.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 01:07 pm:

Further to Steve's comment, just be sure that you get the correct side. Lefts and rights are different
Front bearings; the outer races need to be tight (press fit) in the hub. The inner should be a close slip fit (maybe .001-.003" clearance). Bad bearings will often spin on the spindle. Usually if you clean up the spindle you can see if it is worn on the bottom with your eyes. Any visible wear is probably not acceptable


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 05:41 pm:

Thanks for all the info all. I really do appreciate it very much! I havent taken the other wheel of but I was thinking the same thing Hap, and will check tomorrow.

I am measuring multiple times and getting 1.185-1.186" I fell like 4 - 5 thou might be too much wear. And with the numbers you mentioned Les, Im still a bit much out. It looks bright like it has been spinning on the spindle shaft. If the bearing wasnt gummed up it probably would have done it that much. I wish I got a picture.

Thanks for posting the schematics hap, i will get in touch with Darel and see what his notes say.

Now that I think of it, I havent cleaned the hub races yet to see what the wear is on those. And the outer bearing, how much is the the individual roller supposed to move laterally in the bearing cage? How much wear is acceptable on the bearings themselves? I havent popped out the inner yet so I cant tell. The outer looks nice, no cracks or chipping of the rollers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 06:45 pm:

Ben
Measure the out of round


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 08:20 pm:

ah, yeah. That would be helpful.

Will do tomorrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 11:55 am:

1.190 is the size, 1.185-6 is definitely badly warn replace them. I think the only difference between left and right is the thread and I don't think that matters that much. The left and right hand threads was a spill over from the old wagons. With a cotter pin the nut can't move in either direction. Modern high-speed cars to day all have right hand threads with cotter pins, except Mercedes they have a split nut with a locking bolt and nut, but it is still right hand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 12:18 pm:

One old fellow told me that on worn spindles he just "glued" the inner race on the spindle w/JB weld.
Don't know if that's a good idea or not, but I wouldn't do it except maybe in a pinch for a temporary "get home" fix.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 12:19 pm:

The thread certainly does matter. If you put the wrong side spindle in as you drive forward the wheel is constantly trying to screw the bearing in. If the bearing should spin with the wheel and bind up it will destroy the bearing and can split the hub. Finding good spindles is so easy and cheap there is no reason why anybody should attempt to do something so dangerous.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 12:21 pm:

"With a cotter pin the nut can't move in either direction."

The threaded bearing can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Benjamin Morgan on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 12:27 pm:

FUBAR! Thats how my weekend went, so I never got a chance to measure my spindle for out of round, nor the other. I think I am just going to replace it. When I measured the spindle I measure in the vertical plane several times along the machined surface and got 1.185-1.186" Even if they were machined to 1.189 for a slip fit of the bearing, I still have too much wear. And I dont want to use locktite or anything on it.


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