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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: TIRE RIM FOR 25 T FOUR DOOR
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne thompson on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 06:13 pm:

Could any one tell me what kind of rim for a 25 t four door. I need one for a rear mount spare. thanks for the info.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 06:21 pm:

you would need to post a photo of whats on the car as there are a few options.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, February 07, 2014 - 04:25 am:

Likely you have 21"x4.50" balloon tires on your '25, then you need a 21" split rim. They are often sprung out of shape by previous owners attempts at removing tires with the wrong method or rusted badly, so be careful at swap meets to see what you get. I've bought some duds due to inexperience, but I've never had to pay the going rate of $75 per rim, so I'm OK :-)

Chevy used similar but different rims in that period - you can use them if you drill a new hole for the valve stem in the steel felloe.

Here's a picture showing both Ford and Chevy rims. The Chevy rim closest to the camera is slotted in the lug closest to the valve.
chevy and Ford rims

Since balloon tires were an extra cost (but very common) option, there's a possibility you have 30"X3.5" demountables too, but I'll let someone else (Hap?) describe the differences there.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, February 07, 2014 - 08:49 am:


Sorry I missed when you joined the forum back in Oct 2013 – a belated welcome to the forum and Model Ts. From your postings it sounds like you recently purchased a 1925 Model T Fordor and that you are new to Model Ts. If that is correct, I would highly recommend that you have it verified what the model year of your Fordor is. Over the years most Model Ts had parts swapped out for repair etc. And in some of those cases the engine was changed. And many states did not issue titles way back when (or in some cases until more recently) the car may have been titled based on an engine number that is there because of an engine swap or because the seller had a 1925 Fordor title and it was close enough. Usually there was no foul play involved or intended but rather we wanted to register the car in the state we were driving and that was the easiest way to accomplish that task.

Bruce McCalley’s book “Model T Ford” is an excellent resource for finding the year range of the parts and has a the Engine Production Logs for the later teens and twenty’s Model Ts. That allows you to accurately date the day the engine serial number was allocated. But depending on when that occurred and if it was on an engine assembled at the main plant or at one of the branch plants it could be weeks or months before the engine was installed into a car or Ton Truck. It is available from the club in a paperback format at: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/model-t-ford-the-car-that-changed-the-world and is also available in an updated version on CDs that includes a lot of additional information at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/333725.html?1357665853 An abridged version with less information and not nearly as many of the good photos is available at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/intro.htm

If we “assume” your car is a 1925 then as pointed out above it could have come from the factory with either the 30 x 3 ½ demountables or the 21 inch balloon tires Ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1925.htm [Note I suspect the 21 inch balloon tires were probably not available for the first couple of months of 1925 production – but I have not found documentation of when they were introduced. If your Fordor was equipped with 30 x 3 1/2 demountables from the factory by that time all the cars were using the same Hayes style wheel and rim even if they were made by one of the other suppliers.

Below is a 30 x 3 1/2 fixed lug style wheel:

Below are two versions of the original 21 inch wheels and rims both shown on the front of a 1926 car [the 1925 would be the same in the front but have an 8 inch brake drum on the rear wheels rather than the 11 inch brake drum used on the 1926-27 style rear axles]:

First the more common Fixed Lug wheel and rim:

Next the less common loose lug Kelsey – this one a Canadian noted by the holes near the split for the Canadian tire changing tool.

But the problem is what if your wheels have been mixed and matched over the years? Note only with Ford parts but aftermarket and other makes of wheels and rims can be found on Fords. The goal I normally recommend is to have a set of wheels that all take the same spare so you only need one spare rim. That simplifies life.

For a longer explanation of the various 30 x 3 1/2 inch demountable clincher rims that Ford offered new with the cars please see the posting: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/419518.html Note that Ford also offered a loose lug Kelsey 21 inch wheel and rim and Ford of Canada also offered a slightly different version of the loose lug and fixed lug 21 inch wheels and rims.

So yes, some photos of your wheels an rims would be very helpful. If you are not having any success in resizing or posting the photos you can see some of the threads on that – or e-mail me a few of the photos and I will try to post them for you. You can click on my name and my e-mail is the third line down on my profile.

If you have not already read one of the postings about Model T Safety please take a moment to read over some of the comments at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/154102.html http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/69429.html http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/13483.html and http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/411927.html scroll part way down to the safety part. Some of those repeat but there is no reason for any of us to repeat them in real life when we can read about them and avoid them.

Again a belated welcome to the forum.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne thompson on Friday, February 07, 2014 - 08:52 pm:

What is the difference in a demountable and a balloon how do you tell the difference?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Friday, February 07, 2014 - 09:20 pm:

balloon tires have a bead where it meets the rim just like a modern car. demountable is a term for clincher style tires that were used in the pioneering days of the automobile. with early clinchers you mounted the tire on the rim on the car, and then air it up. you carried just a tire for a spare, they are also known as "high preasure" in that they need 60 lbs of air to hold the tire on the rim with that style of mount. later, the came up with the idea to carry a spare tire that was already mounted on an extra rim, and you could "demount" the whole rim and place a ready to go tire on the car. many t's have gone thru many changes in they're life, and thats only 3 different types i've mentioned here, and the next chapter would get into the slight differences in rims between all the different manufacturers making rims for ford. THATS WHY you need to post a photo of whats on your car, and then we can figure out what you need for a spare

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, February 08, 2014 - 08:53 am:

What Clayton shared is excellent. And if you post some photos of your wheels and rims lots of folks looking at them on forum will be able to answer your questions.

Just a few additions to what Clayton shared. Technically demountables came in both the clincher style and the straight sided style. And some companies such as Firestone produced a wheel that could use either style of rim – clincher or straight sided which were also called balloon tires. See the advertisement below:

Below are the same photos I posted above. The first one shows the 30 x 3 1/2 Hayes style clincher demountable rim with the fixed lugs.

The one below shows the Hayes style straight sided 21 inch balloon fixed lug style rim and wheel.

When I first started looking at Model Ts I could not tell any difference between a 1917 or a 1925. But after being around them more, it is easier and easier to spot the difference between a 1917 and 1925 or a 1925 and even an early 1924. Initially they tend to “look all the same.” And you may not notice a difference between those two photos above but after a while you will be able to easily tell if a T has clincher or balloon tires. And yes sometimes an odd ball 30 x 3 1/2 straight sided rim will through you off – but there are not that many of those out there in the USA (although apparently they were used in some parts of South America as original equipment on the cars).

In general on a USA produced Model T Ford, if you look at the tire size printed on the side of the tire it will give you the answer. [That assumes no one mounted the wrong size tire and if you car has been driving fine – it probably has the correct size tires on the rim.] Also assuming you have the wheels and rims that came from Ford USA for sale in the USA. So if your tire size says 30 x 3 1/2 it usually will be a 30 x 3 1/2 clincher rim for use with the high pressure clincher tires. Or if it says 4.40/4.50 x 21 inch or something similar ending in 21, it is a 21 inch balloon tire and rim. The photos can help spot if you have something other than the original Ford supplied rims and also which of the Ford supplied rims you may have.

I’m sure you will get it sorted out – either by posting some photos, sending some photos for someone else to post, visiting someone who has both styles of wheels handy, or even by checking out some books [see page 552 of Dykes Automobile Encyclopedia at: http://books.google.com/books?id=FRkxAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA552&dq=clincher+versus+straight+sided+tire&hl=en&sa=X&ei=VjL2UqyQIuOO1AHEloHwBw&ved=0CFUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=clincher%20versus%20straight%20sided%20tire&f=false ] .

From one of your earlier postings you also mentioned you have a Model A Ford. Just like there are three different wheels used during the 1928 to 1931 Model A production and the early 1928 AR wheel is NOT compatible with the later hubs (it will bolt on but is not supported properly) so we have 5 different Ford supplied 30 x 3 1/2 demountable clincher rims (and some of those varied a little but would still interchange) and 2 different 21 inch demountable balloon styles wheels. And of course the numerous aftermarket accessory wheels.

Good luck and let us know what type you have and/or the solution you come up with.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

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