Choke wire

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Choke wire
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Saturday, February 08, 2014 - 09:34 pm:

I have a 16 touring, but it has a starter. There is a connection on the carb for a choke wire to go through the radiator, and one for it to come up through the firewall - I'm supposing so one can choke the car while stepping on the starter switch.

Is there a fancy wire/rod that makes this connection? Is this the 'priming choke rod' I see in the vendors catalogs?

Right now I have just attached a piece of safety wire and it looks ugly.

Thanks,

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Saturday, February 08, 2014 - 10:52 pm:

Michael,
I'd recommend Bruce's book, "Model T Ford, THe car that changed the world". Lots of pictures of different years. If you look on the firewall of a newer T at the little "L", you'll see a wire goes from the bottom of it to the carb, and the rod goes through the firewall to the top hole of the "L". Also, the newer carbs have different holes for the front choke wire and dash choke wire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Saturday, February 08, 2014 - 10:55 pm:

Thanks Mike..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 09:25 am:

This is a period choke control accesory found at Chickasha on the '14. You could make something similar easily using another mixture control bezel plate (link below)


http://www.modeltford.com/item/4127A.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:21 am:

If you are planning on using the early choke wire that goes out the front, DON'T go through the radiator. Drill a hole in the radiator skirt. The wire through the radiator itself will eventually mar the radiator core if not ruin the core with a hole in the tube from moving/vibrating. Been there/done that!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:42 am:

Here's a NOS primmer accessory for the dash that takes the place of using the choke on the carb.








Patent courtesy of Art Bell

John E. Desmond
Detroit, Michigan
Engine Primer
Patent number: 1322674
Filing date: Apr 10, 1919
Issue date: Nov 25, 1919
http://tinyurl.com/6nss6pq
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6nss6pq


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:47 am:

Thanks all....I've ordered a priming bell crank and rod. I'll have to add the bezel. That's a nice touch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 11:04 am:

Michael-
The 1916 carburetor adjuster escutcheon plate is black steel like on this early 1915. Not brass, like the reproductions. I don't remember whose car this is. I harvested the picture off the forum long ago.



I'm not sure if in 1916 the round knob is used or the bent triangle shape.

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 11:08 am:

The carburetor adjusting rod on your firewall has no connection to the choke wire you must make that goes through the radiator. They are two separate items. You can make the choke wire from a coat hanger, or a piece of steel welding rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 11:35 am:

Larry, I use a rawhide pull for the choke "wire"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 11:48 am:

Here's another approach as seen on my '12. You pull up on the mixture knob to choke. From the interior side of the firewall you see nothing that appears unoriginal except the switch for the halogen lamps.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 11:49 am:

Keith,

I love your key loss prevention system!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 01:39 pm:

I did much the same as you did Royce on our '14 - appears stock from the dash side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 05:06 pm:

Electric starters were not available on the 1916 model year so yours has been retrofitted. To operate the choke from the stock position at the front of the car AND from inside the cockpit, you'll need to buy this bellcrank (Lang's carries them)...



... and mount it to the firewall like this:



The cockpit control can be a simple, inconspicuous J-pull made out of a piece of wire clothes-hanger like this:



And the attachment at the carburetor looks like this :



(I'm assuming your carburetor has a bellcrank with two throws like my NH-type. Hopefully, you won't have to replace the carb bellcrank)

Now, if you should need to replace a missing original choke wire (the one that comes through the radiator shell on the lower-passenger-side corner), don't bother ordering a brass replacement from a catalog. It's a piece of junk and I broke three of them trying to make the 90-degree bend at the carburetor end. Here's what you do instead:

Go to your local hobby store and buy three large clevis rods, threaded on one end (one rod to break, one to lose under your work bench and one to actually use). Make sure you get them in a long enough length to reach from your carburetor bellcrank to somewhat forward of the radiator. They look like this:



At the same hobby store, get a package of Du-Bro brand "Kwik-Links" (I think they come two to a package). You'll clip one onto the carburetor's bellcrank and screw in the threaded end of whichever clevis rod you neither break nor lose. The "Kwik-Link" has a neat, locking, brass slide that will keep the clevis from becoming detached due to vibration.



The threaded rod is soft and easily bendable, so once you have the free, unthreaded end sticking out the front of the radiator shell, you can wrap the non-threaded end around a suitable cylindrical object (like a roll of nickels), form a perfectly round finger-pull and clip off any excess length.



You can use a yellow or orange Magic Marker to make the finger-pull look like it's made of brass (I didn't bother).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 07:29 pm:

Great Advice! Love the air bag!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 08:07 pm:

Michael-
I think Royce has the best idea.

If your carburetor adjusting rod has the round knob on top, you can put on a collar with a set screw at the point where you want your choke. Just pull UP on the carburetor adjusting rod while you are using your "stomp starter."

That way nothing else is modified.

Royce, You're right. Most people won't even notice the halogen light bulb light switch. Fewer still will notice the 1913 KW coilbox...

; ^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:57 pm:

The choke pull rods never were made of brass originally. Correct for 1916 is 3/32" dia. steel rod with copper coating. You can get 3' pieces of that material at any welding supply store. Make the loop at the front 7/8" dia. on the inside, and make one full turn only to secure it. It won't break when making the bend for the choke arm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 09:00 am:

I use the method Mike mentioned above, but it takes me awhile to get the loop at the front. I like them just like original, and I bend the loop around a deep socket held in my bench vise. Getting 1 1/2 turns around the wire behind the loop isn't easy either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 08:55 pm:

I'm on the HCCA Sierra Vista Tour at the moment, and can't access my pictures. I try to remember to post a photo of a correct choke wire when I return home next week.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 09:14 am:

Here's one:

rod

One full turn around the rod, not 1-1/2. The short end passes over the long end, not under. The loop should end up horizontal. I put a deep socket in my vise and bend them around that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 09:43 am:

It's nice to someone who got the hole drilled through the radiator in the correct place. I've seen them drilled all over the place. Too bad some folks can't do their homework!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 11:43 am:

I use a piano wire for my choke.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 11:49 am:

Mike's welding rod solution has two advantages. It's correct, and if you don't already have it on hand and have to buy it, it's cheap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary M. Wheeler on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 02:50 pm:

I used blue "painter's tape" to mask off the area. Followed the January, 1911 template (hat tip: John Regan) to mark it out. A slight punch so the drill bit wouldn't walk, drilled with a 7/64 metal cutting bit nice and slow, finished with a fine rat-tail file (hobby size) and used Lang's brass choke rod to finish.
Thanks for the template! Perfect project for (another!) snowy day.

choke wire installed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 08:30 pm:

Alert the pull-rod police!!!!

Gary's rod has the short end of the wire going underneath the long end, not over it. Tsk, tsk.

(Sorry, Gary, I couldn't help myself.)

Now you have yet another snowy day project to attend to. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary M. Wheeler on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 09:36 pm:

It's actually not connected to the NH yet. Simple spin will fix it! Good eyes!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter B. Ratledge on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 09:40 pm:

John Regan did some very good research on the choke rod. It was in the Model t times,March April issue
1998. All chokes rods were Copper Plated steel.
There was never a brass choke rod.They were copper plated steel up to 1916 when they were changed to a raven finish


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 10:59 pm:

Here is another version, there is a tube around the rod which can go up and down independently of the mixture control.

In 18 years I have never needed to use it more than a couple of times!!
choke


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 12:07 am:

Gary -- If you just turn it over, the turn will be the wrong direction. It needs to be rewound to be correct. Look at the picture in my post, a few messages above.

This is per John Regan's research of original drawings, as mentioned by Peter B. above. They all were 3/32" diameter steel rod, copper-plated through 1916 model year, then raven finished '17 through '25, and painted gloss black for '26-7.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:18 am:

So, a silly question:

Drilling through the radiator she'll as indicated..... There is no risk of damaging the core itself? The core ends just inside the shell?

Michael


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:24 am:

Michael -- Yes, that's correct. My pic about 10 posts above shows the core clearly. And if the hole is positioned properly, the choke rod comes through just beneath the heavy bar which runs across the radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:29 am:

Hey Jay what's that oil filler extension on your car? I was trying to find it as maybe one of the accessory of the day posts but couldn't figure it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 10:58 am:

About finding copper plated steel wire.
I have found this wire at a local recycling yard.
Someone had brought it in thinking it was all copper,
It is the wire used along our local railway. It is hanging on telephone poles and unused. The poles are very old and falling over in some places.
They have been there since before Model T's were made!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 11:08 am:

Seth, Here you go! I think this filler extension would make a great accessory to reproduce for non- generator T's. So far it's the only one I have ever seen anywhere. You can pour oil right from the plastic container it comes in without making a mess. It's currently installed on our daily driver 15 roadster pickup.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael grady on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 11:32 am:

Thanks Mike. Mine runs through the fins, but now I'll move it. I've been afraid to do so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 11:35 am:

Let's not over-complicate the choke wire. As Mike shows in his picture, a piece of 3/32" copper coated welding rod is perfect. It's both authentic and cheap. It comes in three-foot lengths, so if you bungle the loop on your first try you can cut it off and have enough rod left to do it again. At the local welding supply here, one piece costs about a dollar. If you buy a pound, each piece is less.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 11:59 am:

Why waste money buying something when coat hanger wire works well for the choke pull rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 04:54 pm:

Yes, and if you have part of a can of leftover copper spray paint, you can make it "authentic!" :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 05:47 pm:

I used brass rod just to dress up the car a little. Having a '23 means there's not a lot of shiny stuff on it. Having that little bit of shine is nice. I'm going for a driver, not an authentic restoration. Good information, though. Definitely something to tuck in the back of my mind for another time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 09:47 am:

Here is a photo of my choke wires I make from welding rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 10:07 am:

Too many turns, Larry. We've been all through this before. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Robb on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 02:18 pm:

Real T Choke
Aye, Lads,
Now what we have here is an authentic, correct, 1919 Ford SPEEDSTER choke lever!
Bob (with one O).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 03:29 pm:

You are right Mike, but my loop looks better!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 03:36 pm:

Tsk tsk....

I can't believe "Original Smith" said that! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 10:18 am:

Just got some information from Steve Coniff, who has a NOS late choke wire. I'm grateful that Steve took the time to get this information for us. The wire is Raven finished, .093"dia, ID of loop .775-.800", length 20 1/2" to bent end, bent end 7/8". The bent end is the part that engages in the choke lever on the carburetor. The number of twists in back of the loop is 1 1/4 turns. It looks like I've got some snipping to do, next time I've got my choke wire out, and I owe Mike Walker an apology for being the way I am! With the choke wire laying on a flat surface, the loop and the 7/8" 90 degree bend at the end are flat on the table.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - 11:10 am:

This points to something I have seen over and over and Trent B also pointed out which is that I have never seen yet a difference between actual production parts found and what Ford archival info says should be on a given car (by dated drawing revision checking).


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