Clutch disc survey

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Clutch disc survey
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 10:02 am:

I'd be interested in which type clutch is favored by the members for tallying up a number.
Sometimes the persons with the loudest voices get the attention, but I am interested in raw numbers.
I have four cars. Three have Watts, one has Ford discs, so I guess I am in the Watts column. Lets keep it to these categories
1. Fiber discs, eg Watts
2. Lined discs, eg TH400, T400, Jack rabbit
3. Ford discs
Lets see where this goes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roy Mathis, Van Buren, AR on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 10:12 am:

Count me Watts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 10:13 am:

I haven't opened up my tranny, but am fairly sure there's a standard Ford clutch in there. It shifts nice and smooth if you raise the pedal slowly enough, but the neutral zone between gears is small, which I think may have something to do with the short travel of my emergency brake lever as a consequence of accommodating the Rocky Mountain brakes. Though my neutral isn't "clean" and it whines a little bit, at least it doesn't cause the car to creep forward.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 10:15 am:

Watts in two cars.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 10:25 am:

3. Ford Discs

'23 Touring


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 10:27 am:

Ford clutch in 2 cars. No plans for any other.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 10:46 am:

Jack Rabbit in the 09, works fine. Not had the 24 apart, but judging by the cold drag, it's stock Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 10:50 am:

2. Lined discs within the stack of metal ones for all T's since the 2000. Like em, no issues.


While this period adv from 1926 Ford Dealer & Service Field looks interesting, you use these in place of the Ford small discs. Perhaps is where the trick of 'hammering a convex' side into some of the Ford small discs came from. But don't think it would be of big help.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 10:59 am:

Ford in 4 Model T's. Never had a problem and never will.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 11:05 am:

Ford in all 7 with no issues.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenny Edmondson, Indianapolis on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 11:15 am:

Ford in 3 cars I currently have and in every engine and transmission I've built for other people. Wouldn't have anything else and won't build with anything else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Holcomb, Watertown WI on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 11:38 am:

Ford in both of mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronald Fishback on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 11:43 am:

Lang T400 in two and Ford in one. No problems with either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 11:56 am:

I use the 400 clutch disks like those shown in the photo provided by Dan Treace. They were used from a local transmission shop. It was over 14 years ago when I bought and modified them for our 13 T touring. Who know's how old they are or how many miles are on them. The guy at the transmission shop said he would keep the good disks during a re-build in case some one just wanted a "Patch" job. One advantage for using used disks....they come already soaked in oil.
I bought the 8 used disks for $1.00 each=$8.00 set. He showed me new one's and I could not detect any difference between the used ones he saved vice new. The used are darker in color. He only kept the good used one's hanging on a nail in his shop. I showed him a model T disk and what must be done to the 400 disks. He laughed and liked the idea. Came buy later with the T running and offered him a ride.

The cost was in Steve's Kansas budget.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 12:24 pm:

I always use Watts clutches in my cars and usually put them in customers' cars as well, when I'm doing an engine / trans rebuild. As for a count, about 10 or 12 so far.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 12:30 pm:

Original Ford steel discs in both of ours.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Byrne - Racine, MN on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 12:37 pm:

Original Ford disks in the ones I own now (1911-1914-1927) and in all previous Model T's I've owned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 12:45 pm:

Count so far (number of people, not cars)
Ford 9
Watts 4
Lined 3
Jem, I didn't count you because I didn't know how to classify your situation.
Keep them coming.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Van on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 12:49 pm:

Lined discs.

I made the change during the engine rebuild on my 1927. Part of the reason was that my father (who is an ASE master technician) wanted me to have them in place of the original ford disc. They shift really smooth and I am happy with them so far.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 12:53 pm:

One Watts, two stock. One of the stock will get a Watts on the next build. I like them for a fairly stock T but not with my Fronty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:15 pm:

Ford discs x 4 cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By william Hedges on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:36 pm:

I put watts in one car it did not hold up changed back to ford


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:37 pm:

Current have Ford but when I rebuild the engine and if I can get them it will be Watts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:40 pm:

I've had 20 T's with stock clutches, once correctly adjusted, no issues ever. One T with a turbo 400 that failed, never again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:45 pm:

Jem, Mark and Walt, how should I count you if I had to place you in one category?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:51 pm:

Richard,

As this audience is primarily stock or mildy modified, put me in the Watts preferred category.

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 01:54 pm:

Four with stock Ford.
Don't figure on changing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 03:05 pm:

When l first started playing with T's and watching and listening to the forum , l was swayed to turbo 400 plates as the way to go, they are good, BUT, there are good and there are bad brands out there in the market, finding the good is not that hard, visit the reputable auto repair guy, he usually has the good ones again BUT, the do wear, they are a little harder on a 90-100 year old transmission and the do cause problems if not maintained and inspected every so often.
Original style steel plates is all that l use now - smoother transition from low to high at any rev range, less likely to cause any reduction in thickness and most likely to give you trouble free motoring.
So after many years of dicking around with turbo 400's and cotton, Kevlar bands, l'm now back to where l started with one difference.
stock discs and bonded linings - no fluffing, no shudder, no worries..

David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 03:24 pm:

Watts in my '26 Tudor engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 04:54 pm:

Original Ford


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 05:03 pm:

Jack Rabbit, but not by choice, that's what the car came with when I bought it last June (according to the receipts that came with the car). Seems to be working fine so far (I've put 500 miles on the car), but I've never driven or ridden in another T, so I don't have anything to compare it to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 05:03 pm:

I don't know why anyone would want anything except the original clutch pack. What's wrong with it? I have a '23 TT that has something else in it and I've had no reason to replace it. I think if I revved up the engine and dumped the clutch, I could break a driveshaft or axle. Again, why?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 05:30 pm:

Ford - 1 car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 05:31 pm:

Richard;
Watts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 05:50 pm:

Ford in two cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 06:23 pm:

Watts in all 3 of mine. Full disclosure: I used to be a dealer for the Watts while they were still being made. As has been stated, I'm testing a new Watts-style clutch using different material.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 06:43 pm:

Latest tally by my count.
Fiber 8
Lined 5
Ford 18


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 06:54 pm:

Walt Berdan - if you are planning on more horsepower, you should think less about the Watts or any other kind of non Ford clutch. They slip more easily than a Ford clutch because there is less surface area, due to fewer plates. The lined clutches just don't hold up. Check with Tom C, and see how many times he's been in the Montana 500 top ten.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chester W. Lowery TN on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 07:05 pm:

Original Ford, Smooth and no problems


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 07:36 pm:

Royce,

If you had read my comment above, I like them for a fairly stock T but not for my Fronty.

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave DeYoung ......... Stoughton, WI on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 07:42 pm:

2 cars, only original clutches allowed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 08:12 pm:

3 Watts, 1 Ford, It will be changed to Watts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph A. Stearns on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 08:13 pm:

2 cars both Ford disc seem to work just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 08:31 pm:

Watts.... and use the proper square cut clutch spring, not the round style spring.,.... don't ask how I know the difference.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 02:03 am:

All 4 cars have lined clutch, driven thousands of miles and never had a problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 05:01 am:

Ford in two, all I will use. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 09:41 am:

Watts since 1989.

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 11:19 am:

Genuine Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 12:10 pm:

5 - all stock Ford. Tried turbos in the Racer w/RAJO - too much torque and was replaced post haste !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 12:34 pm:

1919 re-dished Ford discs.
1915 Watts.
1911 Standard Ford.

Not much difference. Just make sure you have a good spring in it!

: ^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 03:08 pm:

So far:
Ford 25 or 60% of responders
Fiber 11 or 26 "
Lined 6 or 14 "

Of those who have responded, Ford discs are favored over fiber by a 2 to 1 margin and over lined by a 4 to 1 margin.

What surprised me a bit was that lined discs don't seem hold up to extra torque, according to Steve's comment and what I infer from Walt's and Tom's post.

Thanks to all who responded.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willard Revaz on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 04:39 pm:

Ford discs in all 5 Ts with an extra 2 in each pack. No troubles in tens of thousands of miles. Not very expensive either!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 07:21 pm:

FYI - Ford clutch disks are flat. If they are dished throw them away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Archer on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 05:16 pm:

All my Ts have stock Ford discs.

Ed #4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 08:10 pm:

Royce - Why would clutch discs become "dished"? Heat from abuse?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 08:41 pm:

Just plain wore out. The important thing to know is that they are flat when usable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 09:52 pm:

Richard Gould,
Some people are just hell on clutches.
I have found 3 stock disks cracked and the remaining scored/blued in a transmission I re-built for a friend. Before I rebuilt his engine/trans. he spent more time on the trouble truck than on the road. His 13 engine was Sick! Slipping the clutch is what caused his clutch failures....also had 2 cracked drums and was using "K" linings.
He now has wood bands that grab and 400 disks that seem to be holding up. Also now uses Synthetic 10/30 oil.
In our 13 touring, I run with a Stipe 280 cam, Gant power head, Dist. and Tilitson A Carb. Car has been on the road for over 14Yrs. with used 400 clutch disks and "K" linings. I also use the stock clutch spring. As many know, I have used Synthetic 10/30 from day one. Am I just the lucky one....?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 10:37 am:

I "dished" that set of clutch discs 30+ years ago after reading an article I read. I don't remember if it was by Murray Fahnestock or Ted Aschman. It seemed like an interesting, plausible procedure at the time. Like I said, I don't see much difference and don't think I'd do it again.

I'll see if I can find that article and post it.

: ^ )


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