Looks like a late '12 by the windshield and headlights, with a '13 body with the long doors. Also has a '15 - '16 hood with louvers.
What do the rest of you think?
I'm no expert at early Americana but their attire looks newer to me then what it would have been in 1911. What do you think?
I think you're right, Phillip. Furthermore, that car is certainly not new. I's say the photo dates more like late '20's, but it's a pure guess.
Possibly Canadian or Australian ??? Front door appears ajar and perhaps RHD ???? Large tires on front ???
Good catch, Steve. Either it's a right hand drive or the photo is reversed. There's no way the kid on the front seat would have enough room to be in that position if it were a left hand drive, and I think you're right about the door being ajar.
But If it's a door how can it be a jar? Oops, sorry.....
I wonder if it could be a photo from New Zealand. It certainly appears to a RHD example. The flax basket for the picnic is pretty typical of what was used in NZ and was made by the Maori folk for carrying things around. Are the wheels the same size all round? Therefore, Canadian probably. Is that an accessory wish-bone visible under the front end? The ferns around the car are possibly another clue.
Body is 1913, hood is 1915-1916, front fenders are 1914-1916, and the windshield and lamps are earlier.
It is RHD, but the body is not a typical Canadian one. Although it has the full length doors, the trim comes up over the door tops to the outside, the door handles are inside and not poking through the top of the door etc.
The car looks 1912; windscreen, lights, lips on mudguards etc. I think we are looking at a custom made body of some description, possibly NZ or even Australia.
Oooh, interesting the ridge on the front guard, looks like a 1915 style.
What an interesting mix of parts.
I say the body is Ford 1913. The two carriage bolt head just ahead of the back door are from the 1913 sill reinforcing bracket.
The door latches on 1913 go straight up, as David points out, but they are on the inside edge and could easily be bent over so the door top padded roll could be put in place. Probably a good idea considering all the kids.
The top has been replaced, the hood is 15-16, same as the front fender. As Rod pointed out, it has a reinforced front radius rod. It may have had replacement parts and the aftermarket front radius rods put on after an accident.
It is definitely a well used 1913 car with a few replacement parts. I'd date it at near 1920.
The family almost have an Italian look to them. Is that Papa Aldo? I see vino in the basket...
It appears the photo was most likely taken in New Zealand. Ref the same photo is located at the New Zealand National library at the link below:
From that link it provided the following information (not that helpful for dating the car etc).
Group picniking by their car
Group having a picnic by their car, a Model T Ford tourer. Three children and a woman are inside the car while a man stands outside. A woman, with a young child on her knee, sits on the running board.
Quantity: 1 b&w original negative(s).
DC Rights: Not restricted
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Group picniking by their car. Ref: 1/2-035360-G. Alexander Turnbull Library, Wellington, New Zealand.http://natlib.govt.nz/records/22775375
Below is a Canadian supplied 1913 model year car that was also taken in New Zealand. From the same archives it is located at: http://natlib.govt.nz/records/22456530?search%5Bil%5D%5Bcategory%5D=Images&search%5Bpage%5D=4&search%5Bpath%5D=items&search%5Btext%5D=Model+T+Ford and the credit they desire posted is:
Engineering class, Wanganui Technical College. Tesla Studios :Negatives of Wanganui and district. Ref: 1/1-016405-G. Alexander Turnbull Library, Wellington, New Zealand. http://natlib.govt.nz/records/22456530
Compared to the first photo which is shown again below:
I believe Keith is correct, that the car has a 1913 style Ford Canada produced body (front driver’s door and it is located in New Zealand).
Below is the photo showing the reinforcement bracket that Ford supplied for use on the 1913 touring bodies. Photo from page 26 of the Jan-Feb 1988 “Vintage Ford” used by permission. [also page 150 of Bruce McCalley’s “Model T Ford” and also his CD]:
Notice in the original photo you also see that curved bracket that sweeps up to the door jam near the back of the front seat and as Keith pointed out the two carriage bolt heads near the bottom of the door opening near the back of the front seat.
But notice that the 1913 cars had the front and rear door handles coming through the top of the doors as shown in the illustration below [pg 43 of the Jan-Feb 1988 “Vintage Ford” used by permission. Also page 150 of Bruce McCalley’s “Model T Ford” and also his CD]:
I think what was likely done was the lever part of the door latch was bent so it no longer came out the top of the door but was now on the side of the door. This allowed them to add the leather or leatherette trim to match the seat arms all the way along the top of the doors, the molding on the side of the front seat and the top of the front door.
It is hard to tell if the T stated life as a 1913 and had parts swapped out or if it started as some other year and had the 1913 body swapped with the original body. But a nice photo.
Hap l9l5 cut off