Perches and castor

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Perches and castor
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 03:44 pm:

I think I said on a previous post that I was itching to get out in my new 24 Fordor and find out 'what the Previous Owner had messed up'.

I now have it registered and street legal. In a lull in the rain and wind yesterday I took it round the block; ran pretty well but steering was squirrely.

Fahnestock says there should be 1 1/4" at ground level between a line down the spindle and a vertical line from the axle to give correct castor. I have 3/8". The perches are in back to front - thank you PO!

Tomorrow's job: strip the axle and turn the beam round, then measure again.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ED Henline on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 04:02 pm:

Your spring perches are in backwards, the centering point should point to rear of car. Ed Henline


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 04:09 pm:

If you are going to pull your axle, it would be a good time to check it for straightness also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 04:49 pm:

One can certainly "turn the beam around" but realize that your spindles need to be in the correct orientation so the bearings tend to loosen as the auto travels forward.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 05:05 pm:

Thanks, I'm up to speed on the axle checking and wheel brgs. Many years ago, our club chairman at the time saw a T wheel heading off on its own, just before the front of his car sat down heavily! The impromptu committee that immediately formed soon worked out that the previous owner (that previous owner guy is a pain) had put the spindles on the wrong sides. Tore the stub axle in two.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 05:08 pm:

"The impromptu committee that immediately formed..."

I love that description! How many times have we seen these "committees" spring up at the least sign of trouble?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 05:18 pm:

Much easier to simply turn the axle around than to remove the perches, the perches give the castor. In your picture the off set at the top of the picture goes to the rear. As Steve says make sure the spindles are oriented in the correct way. The axle has no front or rear. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 07:06 pm:

While you have the front axle out it would be a good idea to check everything for wear and slop.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 10:24 pm:

Yep, that previous owner may have installed worn out bushings. Mine did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 02:29 am:

If the spindles are on the correct sides make sure they stay that way, only the axle and perches need to be turned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andrew Benoit on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 02:43 am:

My car has a bit of a shimmy that is most noticeable at low speed. I'd been driving it for almost six months when someone pointed out it has two right perches in it.

I plan to change them out in the next month or so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 03:04 am:

It would be good to check the wishbone also. Because the spring is flexible, the wishbone is really what holds the caster at the correct angle.

The caster should be 5 1/2 degrees. I would go with 3/8 to 1/2" set back at the king pin bushings to be near the originally recommended 5 1/2 degree caster.
I don't have the MTFCA book on front axles but it does sound like there is an error in the gaps. The Ford Service Manual does indicate 5 1/2 degrees but there also does appear to an error in the measurements given, it indicates 1/4 to 5/16" of lean back at the spindle bushings.





Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 09:17 am:

I don't understand what you are "adjusting" when adjusting for the correct wheel alignment unless something is bent or installed incorrectly. Axles are pre-formed, perches are pre-formed, king pins and bushings go in to a fixed position and the wishbone is a fixed design. What is there to adjust? If the perches are improperly installed they would have to be corrected, if the wishbone or axle is bent they would have to be straightened. Having to use a straightening bar would indicate a relatively severe condition and something would have to be bent.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 09:20 am:

I don't understand what you are "adjusting" when adjusting for the correct wheel alignment unless something is bent or installed incorrectly. Axles are pre-formed, perches are pre-formed, king pins and bushings go in to a fixed position and the wishbone is a fixed design. What is there to adjust? If the perches are improperly installed they would have to be corrected, if the wishbone or axle is bent they would have to be straightened. Having to use a straightening bar would indicate a relatively severe condition and something would have to be bent.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 09:56 am:

That is correct David: if the castor is off it usually means something pretty significant was bent. A while back someone bought a very hefty axle adjusting tool and posted pics on here, I'm still searching for the thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth from NC on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 09:58 am:

Here's one of Jay's Accessory of the Day threads with a tool like what I'm talking about.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/367499.html?1371355540


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 11:13 am:

Everyone has recommended turning the axle around and swapping the spindles. It's true that typically it is easier to swap the spindles than to remove rusted-in perches. But if the perches have been previously removed at some time, they may be easy to press out again. In that case, it would be easier to swap the perches. And there is no guarantee that the spindles will fit on opposite ends of the axle as well as they do now (if indeed they do fit well now), depending upon the sizes of the gaps in the axle yokes. Some fact-finding on Jem's end will be necessary to determine what is the easiest way to correct his car's problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 12:14 pm:

Seth is correct, the only adjustment is bending parts to get the correct caster. My wishbone end was off by about 10 and I bent the ends of the wishbone to get the correct caster.


More details at:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/209504.html?1304663515

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 01:02 pm:

What's best? Considering all the "stuff" that's happened over the past 2 years with accidents and front end business, put every thing back the way it belongs and replace the worn pieces. I guarantee you'll be happier. And safer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rion Schulze on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 06:51 pm:

This appears to be a very good thread to keep track of. I wish I knew how to file it somewhere, along with some other very informative threads. What do other folks do with good info?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 08:32 pm:

Rion,
There are a few different ways you can save a thread. Probably the easiest is the do a File - Save Page As in your browser. This will save the whole current thread as a .HLM file that you can view it later with your web browser.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 11:45 am:

All done! Didn't get it done yesterday, the weather eased and I got some outdoor work done. Rain and wind swept back in off the Atlantic today, so retreated to the garage.

Took about 3hours to strip, check and reassemble - about 1 hr of that being installing pesky cotter pins. The axle has obviously been rebuilt not long ago, all the bushings are excellent, beam straight, and the perches slid out so I didn't need to reverse the beam. It all now measures up correct on the castor, just need the storm to go away so I can road-test. Wonder if the PO sold the car 'cos it didn't steer right :>)

Bending bar: I've used one on my above-axle wishbone setup on the Touring to get the castor back to spec. The under-axle wishbone shouldn't need it as it is all pre-determined by the way the parts are made. But, the 1926 Service instruction book mentions using a bar for fine adjustment; IMHO it could only work by putting a bend in the wishbone.


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