Is this blue original on the front heel metal?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2014: Is this blue original on the front heel metal?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By daniel ryan on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 04:24 pm:

As the picture shows, this is a nonrestored early 1914.

Any comments would be welcome.

Thanks, Dan 1914


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By daniel ryan on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 04:29 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 07:07 pm:

The original blue color is generally regarded as black. The color in your picture is a medium blue, so no way it is original.

Here it is on an unrepainted '13 I used to own:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ward Sherwood on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 08:44 pm:

Royce you are likely correct, but it is a funny thing about how a picture will greatly enhance blue paint. Here is a picture of a rear fender from a 1911 touring. I sanded through a layer of black paint to find a very very dark, only hinting of blue paint as the original coat. You can't really tell if it is blue or not in natural light, so I photographed it. The blue is clearly visible in the photo, but you would have a hard time seeing it with the naked eye.



blue


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Friday, February 14, 2014 - 09:37 pm:

The paints used were a lot poorer quality in those days the dark blue faded quickly ( still tends to today) by 1920 articles appeared giving instructions on repainting your Ford.

The April 1920 edition of the Ford Owner had an article titled "Painting the Ford Car" part of it says.

“Originally, the standard Ford finish is a two color job _ though the body is painted such a dark blue it looks almost as black as the baked on enamel of the jet black fenders”

If one intends to paint the Ford the same color as before and if the old enamel is not in too bad condition, it may be sufficient to use one coat of body blue color varnish and one coat of clear varnish, to give a good appearance.

When the painting is done from the metal up, then of cause the primer coat of blue ground coat should be used. The two coats of body blue varnish are usually applied. This is finished off with one coat of clear varnish.

In 1921 Ford Canada in their Ford Service Bulletins says:

. It is suggested that the Ford service department should encourage owners to have their Fords repainted while the car is in for service. Newly on the market is enamel a paint superior to the original varnish finish as it can be applied and finished in a far shorter time. It also does not require a dust proof room although if available it was an advantage to use it.

blue black


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph Geisler on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 12:27 am:

Again I say remember the guys like the Elsey brothers who were working at the Springfield Mo. Ford dealership paint shop in the mid teens and early 20's when they were 16-17 years old and they were there for I believe 16 years. There were enamels then and also the first lacquer paints called Pyroxalin (sp?). They painted a lot of cars then.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 01:23 am:

Joseph, the paints you mention did not become available till the 1920's. Both derived from experiments conducted during WW1 and became available for use as paints in the mid Twenties.

We are talking about a 100 year old car here of Daniels.

Exactly what its history is we may never know. To be in such good condition obviously it was stored well, but in its life time it could have been repainted several times by its maybe many owners and maybe never restored as such later on.

So the paint may be one of many tidy ups in its life of a blue chosen as its previous color was blue also.
That is a normal choice rather than changing the color as that requires far more work to remove all traces of the old color.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 09:47 am:

To me the paint on the outside of the body in the pic you have showing the 'blue heel panel' has a slight bluish tint to me. Looks like the Blue Black to me showing its age.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By daniel ryan on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 07:50 pm:

I agree Royce is probably right,I plan on leaving the 14 as a survior.Ward you are correct the blue is brighter on photo.What month did they go From blueblack to all black? also what is the two screws on casting date? thanks in advance in advance Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 09:14 pm:

The inside of my '13 hood still has the original paint on it. I have polished it, and held it out in the sunlight, and it sure looks black to me, even though I wish it were blue!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 09:20 pm:

Daniel

Those are 'ghost' screws, the just show up in the casings of the blocks, like the numbers, as screws are used to attach the date plates to the pattern prior to casting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 09:46 pm:

I once met someone at a show who was driving an unrestored '11 or '12, I can't remember which year. Out in the sunlight., it was clear that the original body paint was blue. Very dark but, obvious to anyone. It was much darker that that heel panel above of course.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, February 15, 2014 - 10:06 pm:

The blue you are seeing may be the "blue black" primer coat.

Read "Ford Methods and the Ford Shops" starting on page 360, "How the Ford Bodies are Finished. Painting, Upholstering, Japanning and Baking."

The first brown metal primer coat was done in a spray booth with an atomizer.

The following were flowed on with the body traveling on a track and the bodies were set aside for drying between coats and rubbed prior to the application of the subsequent coat:

blue black primer coat
first color varnish coat
second color varnish coat
(upholstery installed)
finishing varnish coat

You can view or download the book here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=TcAqZt9U4gQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22ford+met hods+and+the+ford+shops%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-ioAU4zgNMSYrAG774G4Ag&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAA# v=onepage&q=%22ford%20methods%20and%20the%20ford%20shops%22&f=false


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